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As I have said before the solution is compostable plastic. It solves the problem with the smallest net change in behavior of the affected parties. As we have r

As I have said before the solution is compostable plastic. It solves the problem with the smallest net change in behavior of the affected parties. As we have regrettably seen with the coronavirus changing the behavior of large populations is incredibly difficult even if there are dire repercussions for failure to change. The cost of compostable plastic is slightly higher than the usual plastic, so the governments will have to enforce its use, but it will be a small price to pay for removing the externalities of dealing with actual plastic waste.

ars 6y ago
I disagree. The solution is burning plastic for energy. You get to use the oil from the ground twice: Once as plastic, and again for energy. It's a win/win since you reduce oil you burn and get rid of plastic waste.
- hristov 6y ago
  Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some truly nasty poisons being released. Furthermore, compostable plastics will solve the biggest problem of plastic pollution -- the a-hole that just tosses plastic garbage in the ground because he/she doesn't give a damn. Compostable plastics compost much faster in proper municipal/industrial composting facilities, so it is still important to throw the stuff away in compost bins and to have regular pickup service, but they will compost in the environment too. Thus, there is some defense against the morons that just litter. In other words, compostable plastics fail better than all the other choices.
  - ars 6y ago
    > Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some truly nasty poisons being released. Only if you don't use enough oxygen. Except for PVC plastic does not have any bad atoms in it, if fully burned the exhaust is completely safe (it's just water and CO2). A proper, hot, incinerator will burn plastic very safely.
  - kgabis 6y ago
    Why bother with compostable plastics if we can just bury the plastics in a landfill and forget about them? The volume of plastics is insignificant, the only problem is plastics that don't end up in landfills but in oceans instead.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  While it's better than burning oil for energy, that's still a loss for carbon emissions, though. And you still need fresh oil to produce more plastic. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but this is not the end game. The end game is either: ~ 100 % reduction in plastic use. ~ 100 % recycled plastic Those two goals are not mutually exclusive either. Yes, it might cost a lot of energy to recycle plastic. As long as that energy comes from a clean source, it shouldn't matter much. Obviously, only the first goal reduces the amount of plastic in the ocean, soil, rivers, etc. I am hopeful that bacteria will develop that can ingest plastic, which would both get us rid of the waste, and limit plastic usefulness, but it can't really be counted on in the short term. And plastic waste has a mostly local, short-term effect. Carbon dioxide has a long-term, global effect. So I'd prefer it to be buried until it can be recycled.
  - ars 6y ago
    Until we completely stop burning oil, it's always more worth it (environmentally) to burn plastic, vs recycle it. Once there is no oil burned, and it's all used for plastic, then it makes sense to implement your plan. But not until then.
- thinkcontext 6y ago
  5 times more CO2 is emitted during manufacture of conventional plastic than is in the plastic, whereas for compostable plastic its more like 2.
armandhammer 6y ago
A lot of "compostable" plastic isn't compostable, at least not under the circumstances that most people consider to be composting... e.g. you can't put it in your backyard scrap pile and expect it to be gone in a few months. It'll still be there years later. One industry rep told me that they estimate their products take 30 years to completely breakdown and that's under perfectly ideal conditions -- bury it in a landfill with no oxygen, who knows how long it'll take. I guess that's better than 1,000 years... but still, it's basically another industry lie.

ars 6y ago

I disagree. The solution is burning plastic for energy. You get to use the oil from the ground twice: Once as plastic, and again for energy. It's a win/win since you reduce oil you burn and get rid of plastic waste.

hristov 6y ago
Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some truly nasty poisons being released. Furthermore, compostable plastics will solve the biggest problem of plastic pollution -- the a-hole that just tosses plastic garbage in the ground because he/she doesn't give a damn. Compostable plastics compost much faster in proper municipal/industrial composting facilities, so it is still important to throw the stuff away in compost bins and to have regular pickup service, but they will compost in the environment too. Thus, there is some defense against the morons that just litter. In other words, compostable plastics fail better than all the other choices.
- ars 6y ago
  > Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some truly nasty poisons being released. Only if you don't use enough oxygen. Except for PVC plastic does not have any bad atoms in it, if fully burned the exhaust is completely safe (it's just water and CO2). A proper, hot, incinerator will burn plastic very safely.
- kgabis 6y ago
  Why bother with compostable plastics if we can just bury the plastics in a landfill and forget about them? The volume of plastics is insignificant, the only problem is plastics that don't end up in landfills but in oceans instead.
MayeulC 6y ago
While it's better than burning oil for energy, that's still a loss for carbon emissions, though. And you still need fresh oil to produce more plastic. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but this is not the end game. The end game is either: ~ 100 % reduction in plastic use. ~ 100 % recycled plastic Those two goals are not mutually exclusive either. Yes, it might cost a lot of energy to recycle plastic. As long as that energy comes from a clean source, it shouldn't matter much. Obviously, only the first goal reduces the amount of plastic in the ocean, soil, rivers, etc. I am hopeful that bacteria will develop that can ingest plastic, which would both get us rid of the waste, and limit plastic usefulness, but it can't really be counted on in the short term. And plastic waste has a mostly local, short-term effect. Carbon dioxide has a long-term, global effect. So I'd prefer it to be buried until it can be recycled.
- ars 6y ago
  Until we completely stop burning oil, it's always more worth it (environmentally) to burn plastic, vs recycle it. Once there is no oil burned, and it's all used for plastic, then it makes sense to implement your plan. But not until then.
thinkcontext 6y ago
5 times more CO2 is emitted during manufacture of conventional plastic than is in the plastic, whereas for compostable plastic its more like 2.

armandhammer 6y ago

A lot of "compostable" plastic isn't compostable, at least not under the circumstances that most people consider to be composting... e.g. you can't put it in your backyard scrap pile and expect it to be gone in a few months. It'll still be there years later. One industry rep told me that they estimate their products take 30 years to completely breakdown and that's under perfectly ideal conditions -- bury it in a landfill with no oxygen, who knows how long it'll take. I guess that's better than 1,000 years... but still, it's basically another industry lie.