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The $1000+ up front and $30 monthly is for the trainer product. You can subscribe to Peloton's (or Aaptiv's or any number of brands') workouts and BYODevice and

The $1000+ up front and $30 monthly is for the trainer product. You can subscribe to Peloton's (or Aaptiv's or any number of brands') workouts and BYODevice and pay in the neighborhood of $13/mo for the workouts. Fitness+ absolutely is encroaching on that subscription workout space, but a physical bike/treadmill and a watch are not competitors. If someone wants a stationary bike they're not going to be shopping for a smart watch.

013a 6y ago
But, there's an argument to be made that they would be cross-shopping $500 Amazon-Prime-deliver-tomorrow bikes, to pair with the Apple ecosystem they already have. I would be scared if I ran Peloton. Their entire MO is the ecosystem; you buy the bike, with the integrated tablet, and use their fitness program. Outside of the top 1% who could drop three grand on the Peloton system without blinking, Apple's whole "$500 dirt cheap bike + $300 brand new iPad (that you may already have) + $30/month Apple One Premier" system (that you may already subscribe to) is killer. Yeah, you can BYOB to Peloton, but Fitness+ (especially as a part of Apple One now) is dirt cheap. At that point, Peloton (and competing products) basically just has to hope that the workout quality in Fitness+ sucks, which isn't likely (this is Apple we're talking about, they rarely half-ass things).
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  Peloton is the ecosystem, I agree. It's the bike and everything around it. I obviously don't know Peloton's financials, but I see its marketing as being trainer+services primarily and BYOD treated as a second-class citizen. When people think Peloton, (I assume) they think about the integrated trainers and the classes structured around them, not _just_ the app for subscription fitness classes. At least that's my view of Peloton and what I'm basing my comment on.
- hexedpackets 6y ago
  $500 stationary bikes are crap. Apple Fitness is only slightly cheaper than Peloton standalone - $10 vs $13 - so I don't think that would be a factor for many people. The main drive of Peloton if you aren't buying their bike is the instructors and high quality classes - I struggle to imagine many people would care more about watch integration than class quality, and I don't think Apple will be able to win out on the latter anytime soon.
  - 013a 6y ago
    Apple has two hundred billion dollars in cash sitting in a bank account, a fitness ecosystem, and deep experience in fitness and video production. They've announced that the initial set of programs will include cycling, treadmill walk & run, yoga, core, strength, rowing, HIIT, and cooldown. They're planning to add new workouts every week, and have popular, properly licensed music (Peloton spent years illegally playing music, before switching to no-copyright music for a year. Today its in a better place). I would not bet money on Apple losing on class quality, let alone variety.
  - jclardy 6y ago
    You are forgetting families. Peloton is $12 a month, but the workouts are tied to one account - so your wife's workout gets synced to your apple watch. Also Apple is offering yearly pricing that works out to $6.67/mo...and then there is the bundle which if you are in the ecosystem already essentially makes it a free service...
    - conductr 6y ago
      > and then there is the bundle which if you are in the ecosystem already essentially makes it a free service... This is key. How many people would subscribe to Prime TV if they didn’t already have a Prime membership. My guess is not many. Luckily for Netflix people consume enough that it’s not really a killer. But with fitness you probably only need a single provider. That said, I’ve lost confidence in apple’s ability to execute, but this seems like a race they could easily dominate if done right.
Someone1234 6y ago
But direct integration with sports equipment seems like it would be the next logical step on the radar for Apple. You'll be able to go on Amazon and buy [Bike/Treadmill/etc] with "Fitness+ Compatible" that streams wirelessly to your watch/phone. Then Peleton offers no value add. They're just a treadmill maker charging 250% of their competitors.
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  > You'll be able to go on Amazon and buy [Bike/Treadmill/etc] with "Fitness+ Compatible" that streams wirelessly to your watch/phone. This really isn't new at all (Zwift, Trainerroad, Sufferfest, Aaptiv, etc). Hell even today all that Peloton offers over competitors is nice treadmills and a closed/proprietary protocol for integration (unlike those other examples). I do expect that Apple will likely package and market it very thoughtfully for mass-market, which is significant. One could argue that Peloton is also all about its mass-market appeal, which is exactly why we're talking about Peloton and not the enthusiast-oriented brands like Wahoo.
- mikestew 6y ago
  Gym equipment integrates with Apple Watch already, yes? At least that's what they advertise; I haven't hit a gym since I've had an Apple Watch. If true, I don't see a big leap from there to home equipment. We bought a NordicTrac rowing machine a few months ago, and it has a Bluetooth. I was thinking, "ya know, this thing is just a bit of software (and maybe silicon) away from just connecting directly to my watch."
- gsumpster 6y ago
  I don't think it's fair to ignore the instructor and class content of Peloton. I use mine because of the classes, I'm not sure I would use the bike if it weren't for the instructors and classes that I like. Peloton did also just release a new bike that does work with Apple's GymKit too, so, I don't think it's just the metrics.

013a 6y ago

But, there's an argument to be made that they would be cross-shopping $500 Amazon-Prime-deliver-tomorrow bikes, to pair with the Apple ecosystem they already have. I would be scared if I ran Peloton. Their entire MO is the ecosystem; you buy the bike, with the integrated tablet, and use their fitness program. Outside of the top 1% who could drop three grand on the Peloton system without blinking, Apple's whole "$500 dirt cheap bike + $300 brand new iPad (that you may already have) + $30/month Apple One Premier" system (that you may already subscribe to) is killer. Yeah, you can BYOB to Peloton, but Fitness+ (especially as a part of Apple One now) is dirt cheap. At that point, Peloton (and competing products) basically just has to hope that the workout quality in Fitness+ sucks, which isn't likely (this is Apple we're talking about, they rarely half-ass things).

ilikehurdles 6y ago
Peloton is the ecosystem, I agree. It's the bike and everything around it. I obviously don't know Peloton's financials, but I see its marketing as being trainer+services primarily and BYOD treated as a second-class citizen. When people think Peloton, (I assume) they think about the integrated trainers and the classes structured around them, not _just_ the app for subscription fitness classes. At least that's my view of Peloton and what I'm basing my comment on.
hexedpackets 6y ago
$500 stationary bikes are crap. Apple Fitness is only slightly cheaper than Peloton standalone - $10 vs $13 - so I don't think that would be a factor for many people. The main drive of Peloton if you aren't buying their bike is the instructors and high quality classes - I struggle to imagine many people would care more about watch integration than class quality, and I don't think Apple will be able to win out on the latter anytime soon.
- 013a 6y ago
  Apple has two hundred billion dollars in cash sitting in a bank account, a fitness ecosystem, and deep experience in fitness and video production. They've announced that the initial set of programs will include cycling, treadmill walk & run, yoga, core, strength, rowing, HIIT, and cooldown. They're planning to add new workouts every week, and have popular, properly licensed music (Peloton spent years illegally playing music, before switching to no-copyright music for a year. Today its in a better place). I would not bet money on Apple losing on class quality, let alone variety.
- jclardy 6y ago
  You are forgetting families. Peloton is $12 a month, but the workouts are tied to one account - so your wife's workout gets synced to your apple watch. Also Apple is offering yearly pricing that works out to $6.67/mo...and then there is the bundle which if you are in the ecosystem already essentially makes it a free service...
  - conductr 6y ago
    > and then there is the bundle which if you are in the ecosystem already essentially makes it a free service... This is key. How many people would subscribe to Prime TV if they didn’t already have a Prime membership. My guess is not many. Luckily for Netflix people consume enough that it’s not really a killer. But with fitness you probably only need a single provider. That said, I’ve lost confidence in apple’s ability to execute, but this seems like a race they could easily dominate if done right.

Someone1234 6y ago

But direct integration with sports equipment seems like it would be the next logical step on the radar for Apple. You'll be able to go on Amazon and buy [Bike/Treadmill/etc] with "Fitness+ Compatible" that streams wirelessly to your watch/phone. Then Peleton offers no value add. They're just a treadmill maker charging 250% of their competitors.

ilikehurdles 6y ago
> You'll be able to go on Amazon and buy [Bike/Treadmill/etc] with "Fitness+ Compatible" that streams wirelessly to your watch/phone. This really isn't new at all (Zwift, Trainerroad, Sufferfest, Aaptiv, etc). Hell even today all that Peloton offers over competitors is nice treadmills and a closed/proprietary protocol for integration (unlike those other examples). I do expect that Apple will likely package and market it very thoughtfully for mass-market, which is significant. One could argue that Peloton is also all about its mass-market appeal, which is exactly why we're talking about Peloton and not the enthusiast-oriented brands like Wahoo.
mikestew 6y ago
Gym equipment integrates with Apple Watch already, yes? At least that's what they advertise; I haven't hit a gym since I've had an Apple Watch. If true, I don't see a big leap from there to home equipment. We bought a NordicTrac rowing machine a few months ago, and it has a Bluetooth. I was thinking, "ya know, this thing is just a bit of software (and maybe silicon) away from just connecting directly to my watch."
gsumpster 6y ago
I don't think it's fair to ignore the instructor and class content of Peloton. I use mine because of the classes, I'm not sure I would use the bike if it weren't for the instructors and classes that I like. Peloton did also just release a new bike that does work with Apple's GymKit too, so, I don't think it's just the metrics.