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Isn’t our first world refuse handling to send it to the second world?

ars 6y ago
No, it is not. Why do so many people believe this? I've seen it repeated over and over as if it were true, but it's not.
- tremon 6y ago
  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-behind-e-waste-dump-africa-180957597/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-... > reporters come here thinking this is the destination for old laptops exported from the United States [..] But this isn’t the destination at all. The computer shops are. > According to the United Nations Environment Programme, 85 percent of the e-waste dumped in Ghana and other parts of West Africa is produced in Ghana and West Africa I think "produced" is a massive misnomer here. For as far as I know, there are no high-tech electronics factories in Africa. What the 85% figure refers to, I guess, is the part of the waste that was part of the local economy before ending up at the dump. But from the first quote, that still means the site is filled with discarded items from the US and Europe, just not directly.
  - ars 6y ago
    So .... discarded items from the US and Europe are given new life and reused in Ghana? And this is bad somehow? Isn't reuse the ideal situation? Not to mention e-waste vs plastic trash are rather different topics. I repeat what I said: First world countries do not deal with trash by sending it to second world countries, despite being oft repeated, this is not actually true.
    - tremon 6y ago
      I haven't claimed anything about right or wrong. I'm just pointing out that the claims "much waste on landfills in Africa comes from first-world countries" and "first-world countries do not dump their trash in Africa" can both be true.
- chrischen 6y ago
  "...[China] which had handled nearly half of the world’s recyclable waste for the past quarter century." https://e360.yale.edu/features/piling-up-how-chinas-ban-on-importing-waste-has-stalled-global-recycling https://e360.yale.edu/features/piling-up-how-chinas-ban-on-i... It very much is true. In the context of this discussion, the bubble barrier works on plastic pollution, so we're talking about plastics and recyclables.
  - ars 6y ago
    Except we don't "send" the recycling to China, rather China buys (bought) it from us. So because they bought it, they value it, which means they are not just dumping it wholesale. > the bubble barrier works on plastic pollution, so we're talking about plastics and recyclables. But we are not talking about plastic from the US or Europe, rather we are talking about local plastic. Because, as I said above: China is not dumping random plastic in rivers, they value the plastic because they paid for it. (Yes, there is some waste mixed in, that needs to be disposed of, however that's a minor amount compared to waste in general, and especially compared to local waste. If you need a ref on that see my other comments in this thread.) In summary almost zero plastic from the US or Europe ends up in the ocean via a third world country. That's simply not how it happens. If you want to solve this problem you need to look elsewhere instead of blaming first world countries as you did in your earlier post.
    - hammock 6y ago
      >Except we don't "send" the recycling to China, rather China buys (bought) it from us. And then what happens? I'm sure they don't "use every part of the buffalo," so to speak.
_jahh 6y ago
most is put at dumps, ewaste might/used to be shipped internationally. Most cities have a dump. The one that handled New York is currently being turned into a park. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/nyregion/freshkills-garbage-dump-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/nyregion/freshkills-garba...

ars 6y ago

No, it is not. Why do so many people believe this? I've seen it repeated over and over as if it were true, but it's not.

tremon 6y ago
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-behind-e-waste-dump-africa-180957597/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-... > reporters come here thinking this is the destination for old laptops exported from the United States [..] But this isn’t the destination at all. The computer shops are. > According to the United Nations Environment Programme, 85 percent of the e-waste dumped in Ghana and other parts of West Africa is produced in Ghana and West Africa I think "produced" is a massive misnomer here. For as far as I know, there are no high-tech electronics factories in Africa. What the 85% figure refers to, I guess, is the part of the waste that was part of the local economy before ending up at the dump. But from the first quote, that still means the site is filled with discarded items from the US and Europe, just not directly.
- ars 6y ago
  So .... discarded items from the US and Europe are given new life and reused in Ghana? And this is bad somehow? Isn't reuse the ideal situation? Not to mention e-waste vs plastic trash are rather different topics. I repeat what I said: First world countries do not deal with trash by sending it to second world countries, despite being oft repeated, this is not actually true.
  - tremon 6y ago
    I haven't claimed anything about right or wrong. I'm just pointing out that the claims "much waste on landfills in Africa comes from first-world countries" and "first-world countries do not dump their trash in Africa" can both be true.
chrischen 6y ago
"...[China] which had handled nearly half of the world’s recyclable waste for the past quarter century." https://e360.yale.edu/features/piling-up-how-chinas-ban-on-importing-waste-has-stalled-global-recycling https://e360.yale.edu/features/piling-up-how-chinas-ban-on-i... It very much is true. In the context of this discussion, the bubble barrier works on plastic pollution, so we're talking about plastics and recyclables.
- ars 6y ago
  Except we don't "send" the recycling to China, rather China buys (bought) it from us. So because they bought it, they value it, which means they are not just dumping it wholesale. > the bubble barrier works on plastic pollution, so we're talking about plastics and recyclables. But we are not talking about plastic from the US or Europe, rather we are talking about local plastic. Because, as I said above: China is not dumping random plastic in rivers, they value the plastic because they paid for it. (Yes, there is some waste mixed in, that needs to be disposed of, however that's a minor amount compared to waste in general, and especially compared to local waste. If you need a ref on that see my other comments in this thread.) In summary almost zero plastic from the US or Europe ends up in the ocean via a third world country. That's simply not how it happens. If you want to solve this problem you need to look elsewhere instead of blaming first world countries as you did in your earlier post.
  - hammock 6y ago
    >Except we don't "send" the recycling to China, rather China buys (bought) it from us. And then what happens? I'm sure they don't "use every part of the buffalo," so to speak.

_jahh 6y ago

most is put at dumps, ewaste might/used to be shipped internationally. Most cities have a dump. The one that handled New York is currently being turned into a park. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/nyregion/freshkills-garbage-dump-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/nyregion/freshkills-garba...