4 ms·

> I've turned down numerous offers because when I asked what the specifics of my day to day job were going to be, the answers weren't clear. Same, from FAANG c

by noodle 6y ago

> I've turned down numerous offers because when I asked what the specifics of my day to day job were going to be, the answers weren't clear. Same, from FAANG companies. The feel that I get is more like, FAANG companies don't even know what you're going to do. They just want to hire top talent and figure out what you're working on later. They want someone "smart" who can ultimately work on any team, since whatever team you initially land on might be gone in a few months. The consequence of this made the interview process for these companies feel much more like a "drinking the kool aid" test. When I asked what I would be doing, the sales pitch I got always boiled down to "you'll be working for X" as if that was enough. That might be enough for a fresh grad, but I'm an experienced specialist. Understanding my role and impact are key to my job happiness. I don't think the intent is to be secretive, its more about - the people in the recruiting pipeline don't even know themselves, or if they do, you might get rearranged quickly, so focusing heavily on the specific work is more of a detriment. You kind of NEED to drink the kool aid since you're buying in to the company moreso than buying in to a specific team, work, etc..

vkou 6y ago
That's because FAANG has a hiring department, that's responsible for hiring. They also each have ~2,000 engineering teams, some of which may or may not have headcount. And once someone is accepted, teams with open headcount look at that person, and make an offer. The shortens the time that it takes to fill headcount, because there is a constant pipeline of ready candidates. This also means that you won't get yanked around at the eleventh hour of the interview process with a "Sorry, we know you did great on all your interviews, but the headcount for the one team you were interviewing for filled/canceled earlier today, don't let the door hit you on the way out." You get 1-5 different team offers if you pass the interview. You can speak to the managers of those teams, prior to saying yes. Those managers, if they are any good, should have a pretty good idea of what you'll be doing. If you don't like any of those teams (or their managers), you can tell your recruiter that (I said no to all 5 of my initial offers, and got 2 counter-offers), and they'll come back to you with different interested teams. Your recruiter gets paid if you get hired. If you don't care what team you get slotted in, they'll slot you into whatever's available first. If you've passed your interviews, but do care what team you're gong to work with, they are financially incentivised to work with you. Or you could just switch teams after 12 months, if you don't like the one you were hired into.
- noodle 6y ago
  Sure. I mean, I get the reasoning/justification behind it. But I'm generally not interested in jumping through all of the toxic tech interview process hoops without first knowing what's at the other side; I've learned that lesson the hard way. And I think that probably filters a certain type of talent away from FAANG companies.
  - vkou 6y ago
    What's on the other side is generally above average pay, and access to ~2,000 teams, many of whom are doing very different things, that you can make a lateral transfer to relatively easily.
    - noodle 6y ago
      Yeah and that is what I mean when I say that the company is pushed forward not the work. You're buying in to the idea that you'll be paid well and that you'll probably find something you're interested in. My personal preference is to find something I'm interested in first, and join it. I'm more motivated by the team, work, problem, impact potential, etc..
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    I work at Google, and it's definitely true that when you're interviewing here, you should be thinking more about the company than a specific team. I mean, ultimately specific teams matter, but transferring is generally pretty easy here, not to mention common.
- 95014_refugee 6y ago
  Can't speak for FANG, but that's certainly not how Apple works. Leaving aside recruiting events (universities, etc.), candidates are interviewed with a specific role / headcount slot in mind. Sometimes there will be several; it's rude to drag a candidate in multiple times to talk to different teams and so sometimes several will pitch to the same candidate on a given day. But the search always starts with a team or teams that are looking for someone.
munchbunny 6y ago
That sounds about right. FAANG companies usually need generalists because teams are so big and scopes shift often enough that the ability to pinch hit becomes an important trait. Or if they need specialists, they usually need [company]-flavored specialists, which you can't be if you didn't come from internally. In my experience the managers usually have a pretty good idea of what work they need filled, but because the hiring pipeline produces generalists, there's some after the fact matching of interest and experience to the available list of projects.
- user5994461 6y ago
  FAANG companies need specialists not generalists. Being large companies, they have groups of people to work on dedicated aspects and technologies. Employees can have a very narrow and specialized focus.
  - howlgarnish 6y ago
    You're both correct! A company like Google hires both generic SWEs, who are hired without a specific project in mind, and super specialized roles like (say) wearable hardware integration engineer, who are hired to fill a very specific niche.
  - amurthy1 6y ago
    The product they're working on might be super specialized, but oftentimes the skills needed to do the work might not be.
bitL 6y ago
> They just want to hire top talent and figure out what you're working on later FB reached out to me twice with a specific project and position proposal (SWeng/lead). YMMV
- noodle 6y ago
  Without getting into specifics, I've had two higher up referrals at FAANG companies, for people asking me to join their specific teams. Both companies are ones who tout the ability to move laterally very easily. Both times, I went through the generic tech hiring process (as in, it had little to do with what I was being asked to do as a member of these teams), and both times, the end result was that I was unable to join the team I was referred to join.

by noodle 6y ago

vkou 6y ago

That's because FAANG has a hiring department, that's responsible for hiring. They also each have ~2,000 engineering teams, some of which may or may not have headcount. And once someone is accepted, teams with open headcount look at that person, and make an offer. The shortens the time that it takes to fill headcount, because there is a constant pipeline of ready candidates. This also means that you won't get yanked around at the eleventh hour of the interview process with a "Sorry, we know you did great on all your interviews, but the headcount for the one team you were interviewing for filled/canceled earlier today, don't let the door hit you on the way out." You get 1-5 different team offers if you pass the interview. You can speak to the managers of those teams, prior to saying yes. Those managers, if they are any good, should have a pretty good idea of what you'll be doing. If you don't like any of those teams (or their managers), you can tell your recruiter that (I said no to all 5 of my initial offers, and got 2 counter-offers), and they'll come back to you with different interested teams. Your recruiter gets paid if you get hired. If you don't care what team you get slotted in, they'll slot you into whatever's available first. If you've passed your interviews, but do care what team you're gong to work with, they are financially incentivised to work with you. Or you could just switch teams after 12 months, if you don't like the one you were hired into.

noodle 6y ago
Sure. I mean, I get the reasoning/justification behind it. But I'm generally not interested in jumping through all of the toxic tech interview process hoops without first knowing what's at the other side; I've learned that lesson the hard way. And I think that probably filters a certain type of talent away from FAANG companies.
- vkou 6y ago
  What's on the other side is generally above average pay, and access to ~2,000 teams, many of whom are doing very different things, that you can make a lateral transfer to relatively easily.
  - noodle 6y ago
    Yeah and that is what I mean when I say that the company is pushed forward not the work. You're buying in to the idea that you'll be paid well and that you'll probably find something you're interested in. My personal preference is to find something I'm interested in first, and join it. I'm more motivated by the team, work, problem, impact potential, etc..
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  I work at Google, and it's definitely true that when you're interviewing here, you should be thinking more about the company than a specific team. I mean, ultimately specific teams matter, but transferring is generally pretty easy here, not to mention common.
95014_refugee 6y ago
Can't speak for FANG, but that's certainly not how Apple works. Leaving aside recruiting events (universities, etc.), candidates are interviewed with a specific role / headcount slot in mind. Sometimes there will be several; it's rude to drag a candidate in multiple times to talk to different teams and so sometimes several will pitch to the same candidate on a given day. But the search always starts with a team or teams that are looking for someone.

munchbunny 6y ago

That sounds about right. FAANG companies usually need generalists because teams are so big and scopes shift often enough that the ability to pinch hit becomes an important trait. Or if they need specialists, they usually need [company]-flavored specialists, which you can't be if you didn't come from internally. In my experience the managers usually have a pretty good idea of what work they need filled, but because the hiring pipeline produces generalists, there's some after the fact matching of interest and experience to the available list of projects.

user5994461 6y ago
FAANG companies need specialists not generalists. Being large companies, they have groups of people to work on dedicated aspects and technologies. Employees can have a very narrow and specialized focus.
- howlgarnish 6y ago
  You're both correct! A company like Google hires both generic SWEs, who are hired without a specific project in mind, and super specialized roles like (say) wearable hardware integration engineer, who are hired to fill a very specific niche.
- amurthy1 6y ago
  The product they're working on might be super specialized, but oftentimes the skills needed to do the work might not be.

bitL 6y ago

> They just want to hire top talent and figure out what you're working on later FB reached out to me twice with a specific project and position proposal (SWeng/lead). YMMV

noodle 6y ago
Without getting into specifics, I've had two higher up referrals at FAANG companies, for people asking me to join their specific teams. Both companies are ones who tout the ability to move laterally very easily. Both times, I went through the generic tech hiring process (as in, it had little to do with what I was being asked to do as a member of these teams), and both times, the end result was that I was unable to join the team I was referred to join.