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I'm very surprised to see most of the comments here in favor of the "landlord tech" described. Some examples, from the site, are movement recognition systems f

I'm very surprised to see most of the comments here in favor of the "landlord tech" described. Some examples, from the site, are movement recognition systems forcing you to perform a "humiliating dance" to enter the building, being forced to install multiple apps to maintain access to your apartment, and mandatory facial recognition to enter your apartment. These are all real examples that are installed today! This is a disgusting violation of people's privacy.

thursday0987 6y ago
how is facial recognition any more of a violation of privacy than signing a lease? the landlord already knows who you are and they already know that you live there.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  How many times do you need to tell your landlord you are entering/leaving the property? At what hours? Because I'm guessing your lease does not include a detailed writeup of everyone who will be coming and going from your place and when.
  - Can_Not 6y ago
    Also, when you do tell your landlord every time you enter/leave, how often do you inform a random facial recognition software vendor about it?
SilasX 6y ago
And if that were the top complaint, that would be a great alarm to raise! That kind of thing is stupid and abusive. But they lead with "how dare they use an online resident portal and screen tenants". What?
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Online portals have problems -- not everyone has equal access to the internet, and tenant screening has a whole host of problems. Think about credit reporting companies, then imagine that they are even less credible, the results even more inscrutable, and more error prone. You think Equifax is doing a great job? The tenant screening companies are doing much, much worse. You are giving landlords more power to turn away poor and minority tenants.
  - SilasX 6y ago
    >Online portals have problems -- not everyone has equal access to the internet, and tenant screening has a whole host of problems. Again, if the complaint were about that -- if they required you to conduct all business that way -- great! That would be a good point to lead with. But a) they don't, and b) every apartment I know with a resident portal has supported old-school interaction, so if there are counterexamples, I need to see them. >Think about credit reporting companies, then imagine that they are even less credible, the results even more inscrutable, and more error prone. Because credit companies aren't perfect, credit checks are evil and racist?
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      > Because credit companies aren't perfect, credit checks are evil and racist? Not what I said at all. The companies aren't just "not perfect", they are considerably worse than that. And yes, credit checks can be used as a form of digital redlining. They are not always used that way, but they absolutely are being used like that widely across the US.
      - SilasX 6y ago
        That sounds exactly like what I just accused you of: criticizing the use of credit checks as racist simply because they can be used that way. At the very least, you're really overstating it as being "not at all" what you said, considering the very similar argument you repeated in the next sentence. Also: >The companies aren't just "not perfect", they are considerably worse than that. The difference between "not perfect" vs "much worse" doesn't seem relevant here. As long as they're not perfect, they can be used exactly the way you describe, so it doesn't seem like a good argument to use to throw (vague) shade at credit checks. Would you mind concretely spelling out how you think landlords should operate, so I know I'm not mischaracterizing what you're criticizing? It's easy to say "X has downsides", but a substantive discussion involves weighing the pros and cons.
crumbshot 6y ago
> I'm very surprised to see most of the comments here in favor of the "landlord tech" described. I think it's not too surprising, this sort of post always seems to bring HN's resident landlords out to argue in favour of whatever happens to benefit them financially, and gives them more control over their tenants' lives. It's a bit like how any topic here relating to social justice attracts hordes of far-righteous types peppering the comments with comically bad takes, before flagging the submission off the front page.
bpt3 6y ago
In my opinion, the reasons for the reaction here are: 1. The technology is "dual use" and the negative examples like you described can be regulated away in general, so the benefits remain and abuse is reduced and punished when it does occur. 2. The over the top bias inherent in the site is offputting to anyone not in completely agreement with the ideology of the creators of the site, which represents a fringe of American society in my experience.
- Can_Not 6y ago
  >which represents a fringe of American society in my experience. *fringe of the HN demographic
  - bpt3 6y ago
    Well in this case, yes by default. Are you implying that the US population in general is more aligned with the ideology of the submission?
    - Can_Not 6y ago
      When I'm at work, I'm almost the only person who is not (yet) a homeowner. When I'm with my friends, I'm almost the only person who makes more than $X and might be a home owner in the next 5 years. You not talking to poor people is not the absence of poor people existing.
      - bpt3 6y ago
        As I suspected, you have nothing but baseless insults and vague complaints to back up your opinion. I can assure you that the views expressed by this project represent a fringe of the US population, and based on this interaction and previous ones with other individuals with a similar mindset, I sincerely hope it remains that way.
        Can_Not 6y ago
        > baseless insults Such as...?

thursday0987 6y ago

how is facial recognition any more of a violation of privacy than signing a lease? the landlord already knows who you are and they already know that you live there.

Pfhreak 6y ago
How many times do you need to tell your landlord you are entering/leaving the property? At what hours? Because I'm guessing your lease does not include a detailed writeup of everyone who will be coming and going from your place and when.
- Can_Not 6y ago
  Also, when you do tell your landlord every time you enter/leave, how often do you inform a random facial recognition software vendor about it?

SilasX 6y ago

And if that were the top complaint, that would be a great alarm to raise! That kind of thing is stupid and abusive. But they lead with "how dare they use an online resident portal and screen tenants". What?

Pfhreak 6y ago
Online portals have problems -- not everyone has equal access to the internet, and tenant screening has a whole host of problems. Think about credit reporting companies, then imagine that they are even less credible, the results even more inscrutable, and more error prone. You think Equifax is doing a great job? The tenant screening companies are doing much, much worse. You are giving landlords more power to turn away poor and minority tenants.
- SilasX 6y ago
  >Online portals have problems -- not everyone has equal access to the internet, and tenant screening has a whole host of problems. Again, if the complaint were about that -- if they required you to conduct all business that way -- great! That would be a good point to lead with. But a) they don't, and b) every apartment I know with a resident portal has supported old-school interaction, so if there are counterexamples, I need to see them. >Think about credit reporting companies, then imagine that they are even less credible, the results even more inscrutable, and more error prone. Because credit companies aren't perfect, credit checks are evil and racist?
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    > Because credit companies aren't perfect, credit checks are evil and racist? Not what I said at all. The companies aren't just "not perfect", they are considerably worse than that. And yes, credit checks can be used as a form of digital redlining. They are not always used that way, but they absolutely are being used like that widely across the US.
    - SilasX 6y ago
      That sounds exactly like what I just accused you of: criticizing the use of credit checks as racist simply because they can be used that way. At the very least, you're really overstating it as being "not at all" what you said, considering the very similar argument you repeated in the next sentence. Also: >The companies aren't just "not perfect", they are considerably worse than that. The difference between "not perfect" vs "much worse" doesn't seem relevant here. As long as they're not perfect, they can be used exactly the way you describe, so it doesn't seem like a good argument to use to throw (vague) shade at credit checks. Would you mind concretely spelling out how you think landlords should operate, so I know I'm not mischaracterizing what you're criticizing? It's easy to say "X has downsides", but a substantive discussion involves weighing the pros and cons.

crumbshot 6y ago

> I'm very surprised to see most of the comments here in favor of the "landlord tech" described. I think it's not too surprising, this sort of post always seems to bring HN's resident landlords out to argue in favour of whatever happens to benefit them financially, and gives them more control over their tenants' lives. It's a bit like how any topic here relating to social justice attracts hordes of far-righteous types peppering the comments with comically bad takes, before flagging the submission off the front page.

bpt3 6y ago

In my opinion, the reasons for the reaction here are: 1. The technology is "dual use" and the negative examples like you described can be regulated away in general, so the benefits remain and abuse is reduced and punished when it does occur. 2. The over the top bias inherent in the site is offputting to anyone not in completely agreement with the ideology of the creators of the site, which represents a fringe of American society in my experience.

Can_Not 6y ago
>which represents a fringe of American society in my experience. *fringe of the HN demographic
- bpt3 6y ago
  Well in this case, yes by default. Are you implying that the US population in general is more aligned with the ideology of the submission?
  - Can_Not 6y ago
    When I'm at work, I'm almost the only person who is not (yet) a homeowner. When I'm with my friends, I'm almost the only person who makes more than $X and might be a home owner in the next 5 years. You not talking to poor people is not the absence of poor people existing.
    - bpt3 6y ago
      As I suspected, you have nothing but baseless insults and vague complaints to back up your opinion. I can assure you that the views expressed by this project represent a fringe of the US population, and based on this interaction and previous ones with other individuals with a similar mindset, I sincerely hope it remains that way.
      - Can_Not 6y ago
        > baseless insults Such as...?