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I think there is now a real will from the chinese government to limit plastic pollution. For example, waste sorting started in Shanghai a year ago and started

I think there is now a real will from the chinese government to limit plastic pollution. For example, waste sorting started in Shanghai a year ago and started in Beijing last June [0]. This is not the usual waste sorting we are experiencing in Europe, for example, since you need to decline your identity and not make any mistake while sorting or you may get charged. Probably a bit too invasive (this is China after all) but more thorough for what I consider a good cause. Besides, the first bans on plastic use will take effect on January [1]. This is only for small items now, but this is a first step, and it also includes production of these items, which is especially impressive considering China supremacy on the production lines. [0] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3016801/shanghai-begins-new-waste-sorting-era-china-eyes-cleaner-image https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3016801/shan... [1] https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3101241/no-plastic-bags-straws-or-hotel-shampoo-bottles-2025-china https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3101241...

KSteffensen 6y ago
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_waste_import_ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_waste_import_ban A not insignificant part of the plastic thrown in rivers in South East Asia is consumed in Europe and the USA
- ars 6y ago
  > A not insignificant part of the plastic thrown in rivers in South East Asia is consumed in Europe and the USA I've heard this repeated many times, but every time I go searching for details I always come back with the same results: This is not true. The garbage in rivers is local. No one is shipping waste from Europe or USA, but some countries do buy recycling. But of course since they paid for the recycling, they have no interest in then dumping it. If you have some source showing different I'd be interested in seeing it.
  - Xylakant 6y ago
    Scientists say otherwise: https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/environment/plastic-for-recycling-from-europe-ends-up-in-asian-waters/ https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/environment/plastic-for...
    - ars 6y ago
      If you read the study they don't have great data, so they do a lot of estimating. According to the study itself it's 1% to 7% of recycling that ends up in the ocean. Obviously any amount is bad, but this isn't a significant source of river plastic. And to really drive the point home: According to the article the plastic ends up in rivers because of bad local trash management!! (As opposed to deliberate dumping.) So the solution is exactly as others have said: These countries need modern municipal trash pickup. The problem does not originate in Europe or USA. BTW: This is a very poor study, for example they use numbers for San Fransisco Bay watershed to estimate numbers for India.
  - _jahh 6y ago
    the stat is about oceans and that it comes from those 7-10 rivers
foofoo55 6y ago
You mentioned Shanghai and Beijing, but note that sorting waste isn't new to the country. I was part of a team that installed a single-stream waste sorting system in China in 2007, prior to the Olympics. It was a very impressive system where all garbage would enter at one end and a large array of machines and people would sort the garbage into recyclables, compost, and the rest for an incinerator. It used all the latest tech, mainly from North America.
- dv_dt 6y ago
  Do you have any good links to the machinery / tech that does that kind of sorting? I've search for it in the past and it seems like I was mostly getting hits on European manufacturers.
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    The systems use lots of clever tricks, like floating paper and plastics away from metals with water or jets of air, or using eddy currents to push metals out of mixed waste. Here's one example: https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-it-works-recycling-machines-separate-junk-type/ https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-it-wor...
- baybal2 6y ago
  I think current garbage sorting is waaay too inefficient, and this is fundamentally limits the recyclability rates. This is especially obvious when you talk about stuff made of a lot of different materials. Picking such things apart for different material streams is impossible to scale. I was thinking, what if governments were mandating mandatory chemical tagging of all common materials, so you can just shred everything, and then separate materials using machines which can distinguish chemical tags.
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    I think it might be easier to just have machines learn to recognize the top 99.9% of all things thrown away and leave the rest to a a small group (or landfill).
sandworm101 6y ago
Recycling, even plastic bans, are not the most direct or simple fix. The first and key step is to stop dumping it in the river. Getting the plastic into landfills is the first step. Reduction and recycling are the stretch goals.
- _jahh 6y ago
  the first step is DON'T MAKE IT or make it of something biodegradable
WalterBright 6y ago
I suspect most the plastic waste I generate is in packaging. I wish shipping companies would use cardboard instead.

KSteffensen 6y ago

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_waste_import_ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_waste_import_ban A not insignificant part of the plastic thrown in rivers in South East Asia is consumed in Europe and the USA

ars 6y ago
> A not insignificant part of the plastic thrown in rivers in South East Asia is consumed in Europe and the USA I've heard this repeated many times, but every time I go searching for details I always come back with the same results: This is not true. The garbage in rivers is local. No one is shipping waste from Europe or USA, but some countries do buy recycling. But of course since they paid for the recycling, they have no interest in then dumping it. If you have some source showing different I'd be interested in seeing it.
- Xylakant 6y ago
  Scientists say otherwise: https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/environment/plastic-for-recycling-from-europe-ends-up-in-asian-waters/ https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/environment/plastic-for...
  - ars 6y ago
    If you read the study they don't have great data, so they do a lot of estimating. According to the study itself it's 1% to 7% of recycling that ends up in the ocean. Obviously any amount is bad, but this isn't a significant source of river plastic. And to really drive the point home: According to the article the plastic ends up in rivers because of bad local trash management!! (As opposed to deliberate dumping.) So the solution is exactly as others have said: These countries need modern municipal trash pickup. The problem does not originate in Europe or USA. BTW: This is a very poor study, for example they use numbers for San Fransisco Bay watershed to estimate numbers for India.
- _jahh 6y ago
  the stat is about oceans and that it comes from those 7-10 rivers

foofoo55 6y ago

You mentioned Shanghai and Beijing, but note that sorting waste isn't new to the country. I was part of a team that installed a single-stream waste sorting system in China in 2007, prior to the Olympics. It was a very impressive system where all garbage would enter at one end and a large array of machines and people would sort the garbage into recyclables, compost, and the rest for an incinerator. It used all the latest tech, mainly from North America.

dv_dt 6y ago
Do you have any good links to the machinery / tech that does that kind of sorting? I've search for it in the past and it seems like I was mostly getting hits on European manufacturers.
- blacksmith_tb 6y ago
  The systems use lots of clever tricks, like floating paper and plastics away from metals with water or jets of air, or using eddy currents to push metals out of mixed waste. Here's one example: https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-it-works-recycling-machines-separate-junk-type/ https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-it-wor...
baybal2 6y ago
I think current garbage sorting is waaay too inefficient, and this is fundamentally limits the recyclability rates. This is especially obvious when you talk about stuff made of a lot of different materials. Picking such things apart for different material streams is impossible to scale. I was thinking, what if governments were mandating mandatory chemical tagging of all common materials, so you can just shred everything, and then separate materials using machines which can distinguish chemical tags.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  I think it might be easier to just have machines learn to recognize the top 99.9% of all things thrown away and leave the rest to a a small group (or landfill).

sandworm101 6y ago

Recycling, even plastic bans, are not the most direct or simple fix. The first and key step is to stop dumping it in the river. Getting the plastic into landfills is the first step. Reduction and recycling are the stretch goals.

_jahh 6y ago
the first step is DON'T MAKE IT or make it of something biodegradable

WalterBright 6y ago

I suspect most the plastic waste I generate is in packaging. I wish shipping companies would use cardboard instead.