6 ms·
Probably the strangest part of this is a person trying to sell a paid version of a compiler. Did that person miss the boat by 30 years? All mainstream programmi
by nindalf 6y ago
Probably the strangest part of this is a person trying to sell a paid version of a compiler. Did that person miss the boat by 30 years? All mainstream programming languages today are free and open source. Programming languages are platforms that thrive only when they're widely adopted. The community that adopts it builds the libraries and ecosystem necessary for it to be viable. You can't possibly build a new platform with a high barrier to entry if you're competing with established platforms where the barrier to entry is next to nothing.
- pjmlp 6y agoThere are plenty of commercial compilers available. Embedded platforms, Apple (100€£$/year), Windows, PGI/CUDA, IBM/xlc,game consoles,....
- simias 6y agoThey generally sell you an ecosystem though, and are often tied to specific hardware, not "just" a language. The only examples that come to mind of a "pure" commercial compiler, not tied to a particular environment or piece of hardware are the Comeau C++ compiler (defunct for well over a decade) and arguably the original D compiler (although I don't know if it qualifies as proprietary, just not open source). Swift as well, although it was open sourced relatively quickly.
- mhh__ 6y agoThe D compiler is now completely open source. It was always source available, but Walter wrote the backend when he was at a different company and he was able to use it but because of copyright it couldn't be open sourced as per se. Symantec signed off on it a few years ago, it's been Boost licensed ever since.
- drchickensalad 6y agoAlmost all of those you're forced to use because there's no/little competition that runs on the hardware, or it's an alternative compiler for a popular language (piggybacking on what OP described)
- oneplane 6y agoOn top of that, you are only going to use those when you have to release on their platform using their tools and their publishing systems. You can just as easily run your own code, compiled by your own compiler. That said, some of those would be in a bit of a grey area considering that you would have to hack/jailbreak all of those consoles and handhelds etc.
- chriseidhof 6y agoApple's Xcode is a free download, the Swift compiler is open source. However, to become an "official" developer on the Apple platforms and publish apps you do need a paid developer account.
- pjmlp 6y agoHence commercial.
- cultus 6y agoIt makes sense for Apple though, because what the devs are really paying for is access to Apple's closed-source ecosystem, not the tooling itself. This company has no such market power; why would anyone want to pay for Zen, when it has no established ecosystem or audience?
- fastball 6y agoSigning binaries and distributing apps on the MacOS and iOS app store is commercial. The compiler isn't commercial, unless you are saying that anything Apple makes is "commercial" because they are a for-profit business.
- trevor-e 6y agoI'm writing a Swift project right now on my Windows computer using WSL, not paying anything to Apple...
- bumblebritches5 6y agoXcode dev here, I have a certificate with a free account. You only need to pay for it if you distribute your app on the app store.
- hinkley 6y agoAnd if you're doing ruby or nodejs or a handful of other languages, you can use the XCode CLI and most of your code (possibly all) will never see the App Store submission queue.
- bumblebritches5 6y agowhat? Xcode is free lmao. Even a certificate you can get for free. Disturting on the Mac/iOS App Store is the only thing that costs $100 a year (and btw it's dollars, so fix your sign)
- masklinn 6y ago> Apple (100€£$/year) The compiler is not commercial and does not require a developer account.
- tyingq 6y agoCan you get the compiled binary into the app store? Or to end users in some other way?
- fastball 6y agoYes? Anyone can download a binary that runs on MacOS.
- masklinn 6y ago> Can you get the compiled binary into the app store? Can you do something completely unrelated to the question at hand without fulfilling requirements entirely unrelated to the question at hand? No. That doesn't make the compiler commercial. > Or to end users in some other way? You can put your mac application on your website more or less as you've always been able to.
- qalmakka 6y agoApple's and Microsoft's compilers are downloadable for free (Apple's is actually Clang), they're not forcing you to pay if you want to use them; even the IDEs have been free for a while without any kind of payment or subscription.
- gmueckl 6y agoThat is not quite true in the case of Visual Studio. There is a community edition, but it is only free under a very constrained set of circumstances (mostly company revenue < 100.000$/year, IIRC). Most business need to buy Visual Studio Professional to legally use that IDE.
- Narishma 6y agoHow is that enforced?
- the-dude 6y agoMeet the BSA : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_(The_Software_Alliance) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_(The_Software_Alliance)
- qayxc 6y agoFrom the horses mouth [1]: > Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps. No revenue cap to be found. Also: > In non-enterprise organizations, up to five users can use Visual Studio Community. Again - no revenue cap. And finally: > enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or >$1 Million US Dollars in annual revenue) Now call be a naive buffoon, but in my book, >$1M annual revenue and/or >250 IT workplaces means that licensing costs for software are not a problem at all. This restriction also only applies to commercial use - academic, OSS, and classroom environments are still allowed. I really don't see how this is constricting in any way. Edit: [1] https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/ (under "Usage")
- 6y ago
- emteycz 6y agoThanks to Wasm (I am not sure if it is a useful compilation target for this language though) any library is accessible.
- brian_herman__ 6y agoYeah, even Microsoft has Visual Studio Community Edition which is Free! https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/
- pjmlp 6y ago"If you are not an enterprise (defined below), then up to 5 of your individual users can use visual studio community concurrently to develop and test your applications. An “enterprise” is any organization and its affiliates who collectively have either (a) more than 250 PCs or users or (b) one million U.S. dollars (or the equivalent in other currencies) in annual revenues, and “affiliates” means those entities that control (via majority ownership), are controlled by, or are under common control with an organization."
- TurboHaskal 6y agoI must have missed the boat as well. I paid for two different compilers last year.
- brnt 6y agoHave a look at the Delphi ecosystem. Used mostly by people who won't learn new things (for various reasons), and don't mind/can afford the lockin.
- jackdeansmith 6y agoIn the HPC world, paid compilers are still pretty commonplace
- maest 6y agoThe q/k interpreter requires a license which costs >$100k; wouldn't be surprised if some banks/funds pay >$1M. Not a compiler, but the same idea.