4 ms·

In an ideal world, users would also disclose some behavioral data to help webmasters get some meaningful feedback about their work. In our world however, almos

In an ideal world, users would also disclose some behavioral data to help webmasters get some meaningful feedback about their work. In our world however, almost all users won't care, and the rest few won't disclose anything out of suspicion of abusing that data.

feralimal 6y ago
> almost all users won't care, and the rest few won't disclose anything out of suspicion of abusing that data Yes, I wouldn't disclose. But because the users don't want to give their data to you, that doesn't mean that it is ethically OK to take it without them realising. That's the rub with privacy. There needs to be some acceptance and tolerance of an individual's decisions. Instead though, we have engineered disclosure. In a pure sense its an act of aggression against another.
- withinboredom 6y ago
  I view it as looking out into the audience while saying what I have to say (in the case of blog posts), or paying attention to who I talk to and using the best strategy when doing door to door sales. Do people put on a mask when they open a door for a stranger or when they go to the market? This kind of knowledge is strategic for both people that want to be heard or to make a sale. Each kind of person requires a different approach. Being observant doesn't require consent.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    Yes, but we all know what it is to go to a public place. We choose that. When you are on your own home, looking a website, you think you are on your own, reading something, like a book. You do not have a sense of interacting, or of being in a public space. You would have that sense of interacting if you were on an Internet forum, or discord, etc. A book does not report on you (and I'm talking about paper books not kindles!). But all websites monitor you. This is to say that the user is gamed. They are misled into thinking they are looking at a private thing like a book, whereas the reality is that they are being monitored. It's the biggest anti-pattern. It's absolutely without meaningful consent and it is absolutely baked in to the internet. There is no privacy online. But, in my perfect world, we should be allowed privacy and be able to go online. Oh well, maybe in the next life!
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      I can see your point. Still, when I write a blog post, I’m writing to you, specifically. Even though I don’t know who you are or anything about you. It’s fair to “see” you there; to know my words had some impact. After all, you sought my words. Do I need to know everything about you? No. And that’s where this all breaks down. Today’s tracking is like being a door to door salesman, and after trying to sell you something, I stalk you day and night. Actually, I’m surprised someone hasn’t tried to sue/charge Google et al for stalking.
      - feralimal 6y ago
        To be honest - I'm labouring the point for sure. I personally wouldn't care about you getting some fairly anonymous data on me. But it would have been nice if those organising the internet experience had given even a bit of consideration to privacy, as opposed to how to eradicate it. My real concern is how we have been turned inside out by corporate technology. I mean there was a story going around a couple of years ago that Facebook knew when a couple was going to split up before the couple did! Its too much!

feralimal 6y ago

> almost all users won't care, and the rest few won't disclose anything out of suspicion of abusing that data Yes, I wouldn't disclose. But because the users don't want to give their data to you, that doesn't mean that it is ethically OK to take it without them realising. That's the rub with privacy. There needs to be some acceptance and tolerance of an individual's decisions. Instead though, we have engineered disclosure. In a pure sense its an act of aggression against another.

withinboredom 6y ago
I view it as looking out into the audience while saying what I have to say (in the case of blog posts), or paying attention to who I talk to and using the best strategy when doing door to door sales. Do people put on a mask when they open a door for a stranger or when they go to the market? This kind of knowledge is strategic for both people that want to be heard or to make a sale. Each kind of person requires a different approach. Being observant doesn't require consent.
- feralimal 6y ago
  Yes, but we all know what it is to go to a public place. We choose that. When you are on your own home, looking a website, you think you are on your own, reading something, like a book. You do not have a sense of interacting, or of being in a public space. You would have that sense of interacting if you were on an Internet forum, or discord, etc. A book does not report on you (and I'm talking about paper books not kindles!). But all websites monitor you. This is to say that the user is gamed. They are misled into thinking they are looking at a private thing like a book, whereas the reality is that they are being monitored. It's the biggest anti-pattern. It's absolutely without meaningful consent and it is absolutely baked in to the internet. There is no privacy online. But, in my perfect world, we should be allowed privacy and be able to go online. Oh well, maybe in the next life!
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    I can see your point. Still, when I write a blog post, I’m writing to you, specifically. Even though I don’t know who you are or anything about you. It’s fair to “see” you there; to know my words had some impact. After all, you sought my words. Do I need to know everything about you? No. And that’s where this all breaks down. Today’s tracking is like being a door to door salesman, and after trying to sell you something, I stalk you day and night. Actually, I’m surprised someone hasn’t tried to sue/charge Google et al for stalking.
    - feralimal 6y ago
      To be honest - I'm labouring the point for sure. I personally wouldn't care about you getting some fairly anonymous data on me. But it would have been nice if those organising the internet experience had given even a bit of consideration to privacy, as opposed to how to eradicate it. My real concern is how we have been turned inside out by corporate technology. I mean there was a story going around a couple of years ago that Facebook knew when a couple was going to split up before the couple did! Its too much!