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> Sweden recently partially privatized its social security system 70% in Sweden is against this change to for-profit social security companies, but the parties

by jahaja 6y ago

> Sweden recently partially privatized its social security system 70% in Sweden is against this change to for-profit social security companies, but the parties in power doesn't prioritise it. And for whatever propaganda reason you keep using Sweden as some sort of objective evidence of free market utopia when the facts on the ground are just a vast increase in inequality due to aggressive neo-liberal policies for the last ~30 years.

rayiner 6y ago
I'm not using Sweden as an example of "utopia." I'm using it as an example of a formerly left-wing country, where more than two thirds of the economy was the government, that has, as you put it, "aggressively" embraced "neo-liberal policies for the last ~30 years." Apparently, people have been satisfied enough with the resulting increased growth and competitiveness that they keep voting in "the parties in power." One can reasonably disagree on whether all the consequences of these policies have been good ones. But if a whole bunch of countries tried "A" and then for the last 30 years have shifted away from "A" to "B" that is powerful evidence that there must be something to "B".
- jahaja 6y ago
  The collapse of the Soviet Union has left the world with "only one way" and the drift into privatization have accelerated since. But even the people in the US have been in favour of some sort of universal health care since well before USSR collapsed but still haven't been able to "vote in" people supporting that. So it's a pretty strange argument to make.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    "People" in the U.S. support lots of things in the abstract, until you force them to think about the trade-offs involved in actual policies. People might support universal healthcare, but nobody wants to pay the taxes to pay for it. Which is why Sanders promises not to raise taxes on people making below $250,000 (!). Biden beat Sanders because a large number of Democrats are actually quite conservative (especially people of color, who are often in the Democratic Party for reasons unrelated to economic policies). Biden, who doesn't support Medicare for All, and promises not to raise taxes on people making below $400,000 (!!). It is literally impossible to keep both promises (and people know it).
    - jahaja 6y ago
      There's a lot of things included in western Europe's high taxes. Not just universal health care. The US sets a very low bar overall. At the same time, however, the US somehow always affords to fund massive wars and armies through its taxes.

by jahaja 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago

I'm not using Sweden as an example of "utopia." I'm using it as an example of a formerly left-wing country, where more than two thirds of the economy was the government, that has, as you put it, "aggressively" embraced "neo-liberal policies for the last ~30 years." Apparently, people have been satisfied enough with the resulting increased growth and competitiveness that they keep voting in "the parties in power." One can reasonably disagree on whether all the consequences of these policies have been good ones. But if a whole bunch of countries tried "A" and then for the last 30 years have shifted away from "A" to "B" that is powerful evidence that there must be something to "B".

jahaja 6y ago
The collapse of the Soviet Union has left the world with "only one way" and the drift into privatization have accelerated since. But even the people in the US have been in favour of some sort of universal health care since well before USSR collapsed but still haven't been able to "vote in" people supporting that. So it's a pretty strange argument to make.
- rayiner 6y ago
  "People" in the U.S. support lots of things in the abstract, until you force them to think about the trade-offs involved in actual policies. People might support universal healthcare, but nobody wants to pay the taxes to pay for it. Which is why Sanders promises not to raise taxes on people making below $250,000 (!). Biden beat Sanders because a large number of Democrats are actually quite conservative (especially people of color, who are often in the Democratic Party for reasons unrelated to economic policies). Biden, who doesn't support Medicare for All, and promises not to raise taxes on people making below $400,000 (!!). It is literally impossible to keep both promises (and people know it).
  - jahaja 6y ago
    There's a lot of things included in western Europe's high taxes. Not just universal health care. The US sets a very low bar overall. At the same time, however, the US somehow always affords to fund massive wars and armies through its taxes.