5 ms·

Chelsea Manning still needed Wikileaks to help bring out the truth, the rape allegations were just that, a total smear it seems, and not rooted in fact. Regard

Chelsea Manning still needed Wikileaks to help bring out the truth, the rape allegations were just that, a total smear it seems, and not rooted in fact. Regardless of his political leanings, he's an important journalist who ought to be celebrated for revealing some very uncomfortable facts.

pjc50 6y ago
The rape allegations have never seen a court and should not be dismissed as a smear. Given how these things usually pan out, Cosby and Weinstein passim, I believe they are more likely true than not.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  As usual, men are guilty until proven innocent when it comes to rape.
  - dijit 6y ago
    I’m not being facetious but isn’t that the whole point in the “believe women” slogan. That casting a critical/dismissive eye is dangerous as it means we no longer try to confirm the claim? It’s a think grey line here: but I think charges being filed should lead to him being questioned. We should not say though that he “definitely did it”, (or that he definitely didn’t) just that he needs to answer the claim. In this particular case it’s “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. Answer the charge and be extradited. Don’t answer the charge and be thought of by the public as guilty. — If I had the power (and, nobody does here, don’t kid yourself) I’d like to see him sent to Sweden but with a protection about being sent to the US. Nothing short of war will stop the US though, they are used to getting their way in ways we’re not comfortable admitting to.
    - globular-toast 6y ago
      > I’m not being facetious but isn’t that the whole point in the “believe women” slogan. Yes, it is. And we must fight such idiocy.
- dijit 6y ago
  I agree with you- we should not dismiss this as a smear nor as a fact, however the original complaintants have withdrawn their cases and it is being pursued by the Swedish government. Of course the Swedish government are saying that it’s standard procedure to prosecute or chase prosecution if charges are brought and withdrawn. But, it doesn’t look good.
- friendlybus 6y ago
  He had been questioned by the first judge on the case, the case was dropped and reopened by a different judge and he fled to the UK.
- laurent92 6y ago
  Weinstein was accused of 98 events and condemned for 2 of them. So you could say that even for Weinstein, 96% were more false or unsustained. There is a debate on whether going to a « coke and prostitutes party in exchange for a role in a movie » is an act of consent or such naivety that it is unbelievable, but the immense majority were consenting adults who did take the role in the movie in exchange. But blaming it entirely on men shifts the focus of the major problem here: the number of women who want to become actresses and who are willing to compete on sexuality because they believe it’s their only asset. In other words: We haven’t succeeded as a civilization in giving women self-confidence in doing a job of science or talent, and they keep falling back on offering what they are, not what they do. That would solve the problem in a much wider way than giving the power to women to crucify any man around them, because that makes a large percentage of men weary of working with women, and multiplies the problem of female employment. Just saying.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    > giving the power to women to crucify any man around them This is a gross mischaracterisation of how difficult it is to get rape convictions. > We haven’t succeeded as a civilization in giving women self-confidence in doing a job of science or talent, and they keep falling back on offering what they are, not what they do. This is a gross mischaracterisation of the pressure is applied to women to do these things.
    - dempseye 6y ago
      > This is a gross mischaracterisation of how difficult it is to get rape convictions. A conviction is not necessary to severely negatively affect someone's life.

pjc50 6y ago

The rape allegations have never seen a court and should not be dismissed as a smear. Given how these things usually pan out, Cosby and Weinstein passim, I believe they are more likely true than not.

globular-toast 6y ago
As usual, men are guilty until proven innocent when it comes to rape.
- dijit 6y ago
  I’m not being facetious but isn’t that the whole point in the “believe women” slogan. That casting a critical/dismissive eye is dangerous as it means we no longer try to confirm the claim? It’s a think grey line here: but I think charges being filed should lead to him being questioned. We should not say though that he “definitely did it”, (or that he definitely didn’t) just that he needs to answer the claim. In this particular case it’s “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. Answer the charge and be extradited. Don’t answer the charge and be thought of by the public as guilty. — If I had the power (and, nobody does here, don’t kid yourself) I’d like to see him sent to Sweden but with a protection about being sent to the US. Nothing short of war will stop the US though, they are used to getting their way in ways we’re not comfortable admitting to.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    > I’m not being facetious but isn’t that the whole point in the “believe women” slogan. Yes, it is. And we must fight such idiocy.
dijit 6y ago
I agree with you- we should not dismiss this as a smear nor as a fact, however the original complaintants have withdrawn their cases and it is being pursued by the Swedish government. Of course the Swedish government are saying that it’s standard procedure to prosecute or chase prosecution if charges are brought and withdrawn. But, it doesn’t look good.
friendlybus 6y ago
He had been questioned by the first judge on the case, the case was dropped and reopened by a different judge and he fled to the UK.
laurent92 6y ago
Weinstein was accused of 98 events and condemned for 2 of them. So you could say that even for Weinstein, 96% were more false or unsustained. There is a debate on whether going to a « coke and prostitutes party in exchange for a role in a movie » is an act of consent or such naivety that it is unbelievable, but the immense majority were consenting adults who did take the role in the movie in exchange. But blaming it entirely on men shifts the focus of the major problem here: the number of women who want to become actresses and who are willing to compete on sexuality because they believe it’s their only asset. In other words: We haven’t succeeded as a civilization in giving women self-confidence in doing a job of science or talent, and they keep falling back on offering what they are, not what they do. That would solve the problem in a much wider way than giving the power to women to crucify any man around them, because that makes a large percentage of men weary of working with women, and multiplies the problem of female employment. Just saying.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > giving the power to women to crucify any man around them This is a gross mischaracterisation of how difficult it is to get rape convictions. > We haven’t succeeded as a civilization in giving women self-confidence in doing a job of science or talent, and they keep falling back on offering what they are, not what they do. This is a gross mischaracterisation of the pressure is applied to women to do these things.
  - dempseye 6y ago
    > This is a gross mischaracterisation of how difficult it is to get rape convictions. A conviction is not necessary to severely negatively affect someone's life.