4 ms·

I honestly think of him as a political actor, in the "chess player" sense of the word politics, rather than in the idealistic sense; so I wasn't particularly sy

by kace91 6y ago

I honestly think of him as a political actor, in the "chess player" sense of the word politics, rather than in the idealistic sense; so I wasn't particularly sympathetic. You know the game you're playing, and all. After reading he's headed for ADX, however, I'm sympathetic. No prisoner of any kind should be exposed for anything remotely resembling that, in my opinion. It's a horror movie come true.

emilsedgh 6y ago
I honestly think of him as a political actor Is there any proof/indication of him being a political actor? You know the game you're playing, and all. This could be applied to any journalist who exposes powerful institutions.
- croon 6y ago
  > Is there any proof/indication of him being a political actor? https://apnews.com/ce9a4541f903109079900528d9f0a9e7 https://apnews.com/ce9a4541f903109079900528d9f0a9e7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/senate-committee-concludes-russia-used-manafort-wikileaks-to-boost-trump-in-2016-idUSKCN25E1US https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/s... https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks-election-clinton-trump/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks...
cies 6y ago
Do you consider journalists (that publish info that related to political decisions) as political actors?
- tasogare 6y ago
  Why would you consider they aren’t? Journalists have by far the strongest leverage on public opinion than any other workers, and historically newspapers were indeed positioned politically (and still are, to a little extent).
  - arethuza 6y ago
    Newspapers in the UK are generally fairly strongly politically aligned and our TV channels are supposed to be unbiased - I believe it is the other way round in the US?
  - pjc50 6y ago
    I don't know why this was downvoted, journalism leads public opinion to a huge extent. The primary motivation for billionaires to own media empires is to have an influence on politics.
- kace91 6y ago
  it is a complex question. I do think that both journalists and whistleblowers should have certain protections in a free society. However, I can't shake the feeling that wikileaks exploits the hunger for justice of honest-minded whistleblowers as a front for information gathering, and then choose to use said information however fits their own selfish interests. So I don't like them at all as martyrs of free speech. Assange is no Snowden. Then again, as I said, I am 100% against certain punishments that I think go against basic human rights. Just the possibility of ending up in ADX should be enough to deny extradition, regardless of who's the alleged criminal.
  - itsoktocry 6y ago
    >and then choose to use said information however fits their own selfish interests It's hard to wrap my head around the argument that since the information was used to forward an agenda or was released selectively it's somehow "bad" Who cares, if the content is valid and incendiary? Leaks or whistleblowers don't have to be "balanced".
  - hajile 6y ago
    Let's review (from wikipedia) Apparent Somali assassination order Guantanamo Bay procedures Daniel arap Moi Tibetan Unrest videos Scientology materials Sarah Palin Emails Killings by the Kenyan police BNP membership Congressional Research Service reports Norm Coleman Climategate 1 and 2 (the forgotten one that outright stated what the first implied) Barclays Bank tax avoidance Internet censorship lists Bilderberg Group meeting reports 2008 Peru oil scandal Nuclear accident in Iran Toxic dumping in Africa: The Minton report Kaupthing Bank Joint Services Protocol 440 9/11 pager messages U.S. Intelligence report on WikiLeaks Baghdad airstrike video Afghan War Diary Love Parade documents Iraq War logs State Department diplomatic cables release Guantanamo Bay files The Spy Files Stratfor email leak Syria Files Prosecution and prison documents for Anakata (the pirate bay guy) Draft Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement IP Charter and later TPP Investment Chapter Trade in Services Agreement chapter draft Australian bribery case suppression order Sony archives Trident Nuclear Weapons System The Saudi Cables DNC email leak Podesta emails (DNC and this show bias against Bernie Sanders rather than dealing with trump vs hillary) Yemen files (US secret involvement in Yemen conflict) German BND-NSA Inquiry (US spying on Germany) Turkish AK Party emails CIA espionage orders Vault 7 (CIA hacking software info) Spy Files Russia (Russia spies on it's citizens too) ICE Patrol (ICE employee LinkedIn profiles) corrupted broker in France-UAE arms deal (French and German governments selling weapons) Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (Syria/Russia interfering with chemical weapon investigation) I see no evidence that the releases favor particular countries or ideologies aside from the general anti-war stance. Most are about corruption and spying across a wide set of countries. It also makes sense that the US has the most leaks. The US probably has more continuing wars and "police actions" than any other 10 countries combined. In addition, the culture of the US tends to be more open making leaks a bit easier. What exactly on this list do you take issue with?

by kace91 6y ago

emilsedgh 6y ago

I honestly think of him as a political actor Is there any proof/indication of him being a political actor? You know the game you're playing, and all. This could be applied to any journalist who exposes powerful institutions.

croon 6y ago
> Is there any proof/indication of him being a political actor? https://apnews.com/ce9a4541f903109079900528d9f0a9e7 https://apnews.com/ce9a4541f903109079900528d9f0a9e7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/senate-committee-concludes-russia-used-manafort-wikileaks-to-boost-trump-in-2016-idUSKCN25E1US https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/s... https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks-election-clinton-trump/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks...

cies 6y ago

Do you consider journalists (that publish info that related to political decisions) as political actors?

tasogare 6y ago
Why would you consider they aren’t? Journalists have by far the strongest leverage on public opinion than any other workers, and historically newspapers were indeed positioned politically (and still are, to a little extent).
- arethuza 6y ago
  Newspapers in the UK are generally fairly strongly politically aligned and our TV channels are supposed to be unbiased - I believe it is the other way round in the US?
- pjc50 6y ago
  I don't know why this was downvoted, journalism leads public opinion to a huge extent. The primary motivation for billionaires to own media empires is to have an influence on politics.
kace91 6y ago
it is a complex question. I do think that both journalists and whistleblowers should have certain protections in a free society. However, I can't shake the feeling that wikileaks exploits the hunger for justice of honest-minded whistleblowers as a front for information gathering, and then choose to use said information however fits their own selfish interests. So I don't like them at all as martyrs of free speech. Assange is no Snowden. Then again, as I said, I am 100% against certain punishments that I think go against basic human rights. Just the possibility of ending up in ADX should be enough to deny extradition, regardless of who's the alleged criminal.
- itsoktocry 6y ago
  >and then choose to use said information however fits their own selfish interests It's hard to wrap my head around the argument that since the information was used to forward an agenda or was released selectively it's somehow "bad" Who cares, if the content is valid and incendiary? Leaks or whistleblowers don't have to be "balanced".
- hajile 6y ago
  Let's review (from wikipedia) Apparent Somali assassination order Guantanamo Bay procedures Daniel arap Moi Tibetan Unrest videos Scientology materials Sarah Palin Emails Killings by the Kenyan police BNP membership Congressional Research Service reports Norm Coleman Climategate 1 and 2 (the forgotten one that outright stated what the first implied) Barclays Bank tax avoidance Internet censorship lists Bilderberg Group meeting reports 2008 Peru oil scandal Nuclear accident in Iran Toxic dumping in Africa: The Minton report Kaupthing Bank Joint Services Protocol 440 9/11 pager messages U.S. Intelligence report on WikiLeaks Baghdad airstrike video Afghan War Diary Love Parade documents Iraq War logs State Department diplomatic cables release Guantanamo Bay files The Spy Files Stratfor email leak Syria Files Prosecution and prison documents for Anakata (the pirate bay guy) Draft Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement IP Charter and later TPP Investment Chapter Trade in Services Agreement chapter draft Australian bribery case suppression order Sony archives Trident Nuclear Weapons System The Saudi Cables DNC email leak Podesta emails (DNC and this show bias against Bernie Sanders rather than dealing with trump vs hillary) Yemen files (US secret involvement in Yemen conflict) German BND-NSA Inquiry (US spying on Germany) Turkish AK Party emails CIA espionage orders Vault 7 (CIA hacking software info) Spy Files Russia (Russia spies on it's citizens too) ICE Patrol (ICE employee LinkedIn profiles) corrupted broker in France-UAE arms deal (French and German governments selling weapons) Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (Syria/Russia interfering with chemical weapon investigation) I see no evidence that the releases favor particular countries or ideologies aside from the general anti-war stance. Most are about corruption and spying across a wide set of countries. It also makes sense that the US has the most leaks. The US probably has more continuing wars and "police actions" than any other 10 countries combined. In addition, the culture of the US tends to be more open making leaks a bit easier. What exactly on this list do you take issue with?