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When I was looking at moving to Portland about 18 months ago, companies there wanted me to take a 40+% cut in pay versus what I'm making in San Francisco. Grant

When I was looking at moving to Portland about 18 months ago, companies there wanted me to take a 40+% cut in pay versus what I'm making in San Francisco. Granted, I only talked to a couple of companies, so maybe I just picked the wrong ones. Things might also have changed since then, thanks to the economy picking up and the higher competition for software engineers.

siculars 16y ago
That may be part of the reason Portland is not keeping up with other tech centers. Taking a 40% pay cut just to work in Portland is kinda... dumb. I mean, did these startups accept a 40% cut in their valuation or funding rounds because they are based in Portland? Do they pay 40% less to host with Amazon or Rackspace? It's just ridiculous and kind of insulting. I once had someone pull that on me re. a job in Florida. The dude was like "hey, there is no income tax here!" And I was like "hey, bmws cost the same all over the country." (Not that I drive a bmw, mind you. I drive a 129$/mo honda civic. It's just the principle of it all.)
- scottkrager 16y ago
  Car costs actually vary quite a bit depending on what part of the country you purchase in. Also, with no sales tax in Oregon, a BMW is significantly cheaper in Portland in total cost.
- jonmacdonald 16y ago
  Cost of living in Portland is indeed way lower than the valley, and thus the salaries that your competition (as a developer looking for a job) will take is less than in the valley. This is why salaries are sometimes offered for less here in Portland than other West coast cities. It is unfair to blame Portland (as a city) or the companies (who exist to make profit and thus get the best talent for the least amount reasonable). Instead, blame your talent competition who has your same skill set but will accept $10k less than you. Or, better yet, make yourself worth that extra $10k by proving you are worth it.
- rdl 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure Portland based companies take more than a 40% cut in valuation and funding rounds, vs. SF based companies. (not saying this is a good thing, just that it is observed) There is a weird valley (which Portland is still kind of close to the "uphill" side of, which SF/NYC probably are the top of) where sufficiently remote or small places are cheaper for a lot of things (real estate, mass market locally produced goods like restaurants and cafes, probably generic developers or IT helpdesk people), but then more expensive for certain specialized skills (if you absolutely must have one of the world's top 100 experts in COBOL working for your remote office in North Dakota for 2 months, you're going to have to pay him more than to have him work from SF).
- neworbit 16y ago
  I have only anecdotal evidence of this but it sounds like valuations in Portland or Seattle are more like 70% off as compared to Bay Area deals. I'm astounded more VC money doesn't get deployed elsewhere.
roc 16y ago
It seems one of Portland's standing economic 'problems' is that it is apparently very nice out there. Which is to say: wages do tend to be lower than you'd expect given the cost of living, due solely the number of skilled and educated workers who will accept comparatively lower wages, just so they can live in/around Portland. As they say: Portland is where young people go to retire. And as long as that's true, I'd imagine Portland salaries will continue to lag 'expectations' and almost certainly trail the Valley.
- aeschright 16y ago
  Well, some of us grew up here, so then there's the issue of "do I trade moving away from everyone I know to earn more money?". Also, I'm not sure that everyone who makes the salary trade-off knows that they're doing so. Is a developer earning $35k/year thinking "I could earn more at another company, or in the Bay Area, but I like it here" or do they think they're earning a fairly average wage?
  - roc 16y ago
    I would think that 'roots' would be a big drag on mobility in pretty much any city. So I don't know if that's a factor in Portland's unique 'problem'. And someone who never thought to question their salary level is by definition someone who couldn't be conscious of any trade-offs that might be in play. Is everyone aware? Almost certainly not. But if you ever had cause to look at salary data, I don't think you could miss it.
  - interrupt 16y ago
    I've been told by jobs both local (in ND, not that it matters) and remote that my wages were being determined by looking at the local average of people with my job title. It would be hard not to know that your salary is scaled to where you live. Another issue besides roots in moving is that higher wages always come with higher costs of living. I own a house where I live which has a lower mortgage payment, by far, than a small apartment in SF. Granted that comes with downsides: no decent curry, bars that can't make a manhattan, etc

siculars 16y ago

That may be part of the reason Portland is not keeping up with other tech centers. Taking a 40% pay cut just to work in Portland is kinda... dumb. I mean, did these startups accept a 40% cut in their valuation or funding rounds because they are based in Portland? Do they pay 40% less to host with Amazon or Rackspace? It's just ridiculous and kind of insulting. I once had someone pull that on me re. a job in Florida. The dude was like "hey, there is no income tax here!" And I was like "hey, bmws cost the same all over the country." (Not that I drive a bmw, mind you. I drive a 129$/mo honda civic. It's just the principle of it all.)

scottkrager 16y ago
Car costs actually vary quite a bit depending on what part of the country you purchase in. Also, with no sales tax in Oregon, a BMW is significantly cheaper in Portland in total cost.
jonmacdonald 16y ago
Cost of living in Portland is indeed way lower than the valley, and thus the salaries that your competition (as a developer looking for a job) will take is less than in the valley. This is why salaries are sometimes offered for less here in Portland than other West coast cities. It is unfair to blame Portland (as a city) or the companies (who exist to make profit and thus get the best talent for the least amount reasonable). Instead, blame your talent competition who has your same skill set but will accept $10k less than you. Or, better yet, make yourself worth that extra $10k by proving you are worth it.
rdl 16y ago
I'm pretty sure Portland based companies take more than a 40% cut in valuation and funding rounds, vs. SF based companies. (not saying this is a good thing, just that it is observed) There is a weird valley (which Portland is still kind of close to the "uphill" side of, which SF/NYC probably are the top of) where sufficiently remote or small places are cheaper for a lot of things (real estate, mass market locally produced goods like restaurants and cafes, probably generic developers or IT helpdesk people), but then more expensive for certain specialized skills (if you absolutely must have one of the world's top 100 experts in COBOL working for your remote office in North Dakota for 2 months, you're going to have to pay him more than to have him work from SF).
neworbit 16y ago
I have only anecdotal evidence of this but it sounds like valuations in Portland or Seattle are more like 70% off as compared to Bay Area deals. I'm astounded more VC money doesn't get deployed elsewhere.

roc 16y ago

It seems one of Portland's standing economic 'problems' is that it is apparently very nice out there. Which is to say: wages do tend to be lower than you'd expect given the cost of living, due solely the number of skilled and educated workers who will accept comparatively lower wages, just so they can live in/around Portland. As they say: Portland is where young people go to retire. And as long as that's true, I'd imagine Portland salaries will continue to lag 'expectations' and almost certainly trail the Valley.

aeschright 16y ago
Well, some of us grew up here, so then there's the issue of "do I trade moving away from everyone I know to earn more money?". Also, I'm not sure that everyone who makes the salary trade-off knows that they're doing so. Is a developer earning $35k/year thinking "I could earn more at another company, or in the Bay Area, but I like it here" or do they think they're earning a fairly average wage?
- roc 16y ago
  I would think that 'roots' would be a big drag on mobility in pretty much any city. So I don't know if that's a factor in Portland's unique 'problem'. And someone who never thought to question their salary level is by definition someone who couldn't be conscious of any trade-offs that might be in play. Is everyone aware? Almost certainly not. But if you ever had cause to look at salary data, I don't think you could miss it.
- interrupt 16y ago
  I've been told by jobs both local (in ND, not that it matters) and remote that my wages were being determined by looking at the local average of people with my job title. It would be hard not to know that your salary is scaled to where you live. Another issue besides roots in moving is that higher wages always come with higher costs of living. I own a house where I live which has a lower mortgage payment, by far, than a small apartment in SF. Granted that comes with downsides: no decent curry, bars that can't make a manhattan, etc