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> ‘Like an Experimental Concentration Camp’ Not political at all? Do we really think the USA is running something close to a Experimental Concentration Camp? E

> ‘Like an Experimental Concentration Camp’ Not political at all? Do we really think the USA is running something close to a Experimental Concentration Camp? Exactly what are they experimenting on, what don't we know about hysterectomies? Or do we think the USA is making women infertile as a form of population control? Seriously? I suspect it follows your politics which is why it's "not political". We aren't conflating anything. It's an important story nonetheless.

sudosysgen 6y ago
Why do you think that people are being sterilized in a camp at the border at which people are not allowed the right for a trial, did not commit any crimes, and are not allowed to leave? Seriously, I'm hoping there is an explanation that is less horrific.
- aaron695 6y ago
  I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. I don't know how that mind would work. Do you say it because of true stories we know about the past and are are taught history repeats itself. Do you think it's true on rote? Who would be doing this? Why? How? Is it Illuminati, or Republicans, or a systematic breakdown of processes? I don't know what level you are on. I said this in another comment, but if this was a betting market, 50% didn't happen, 30% rogue doctor, 20% something simple I can't think of. For instance I don't think it's true, but I did look to see if you get special compensations if you get a hysterectomy, it could be driven by the women. There's a few other things to look at.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    The US has been systematically sterilizing indigenous populations up until the 70s. Why do you think we did that? If we're willing to get sordid, there are definitely reasons to do so; maiming people at the border sends a strong message to would-be asylum seekers, for one. For another, there are people in ICE with strong white supremacist tendencies. We have camps right now where people are not allowed a fair trial, and are not allowed to leave. This is very, very, very fucked. And no, they don't get any compensation for anything. They don't have a US bank account. They are detainees in a weird legal limbo, without any legal status in the US. Why not read the document in the article? In any case, if you have a better explanation, I'm all ears. But it really doesn't compute here.
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      I think a better explanation is that this is a doctor who specializes in hysterectomies and who recommends hysterectomies whenever that isn't outright malpractice, because it's a routine procedure and it pays relatively well. This isn't uncommon practice. Hysterectomies often aren't strictly necessary, just like tonsillectomies, back surgeries or hip replacements. There is no evidence for this really being "masses" of women, or that any of these procedures were entirely unjustified, or that any of this is happening systematically.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    > I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. Unfortunately, there appears to be evidence of it. :( eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Unite... That's just a starting point, as it contains both historical info through to the last few years. It gives plenty of references to investigate further though, in case that's of interest.
    - aaron695 6y ago
      You can't just pull out Wikipedia on forced sterilisations we all learned at high school. You have to take that and logically apply that to this situation. Why is there one doctor, the uterus collector, who's known for the supposed sterilisations? If this is at the government level why are there not multiple doctors and hospitals involved? Why are they doing hysterectomies over blocking or cutting the Fallopian tubes? HN should be better than 4chan, it's not, but it should try. You need a holistic theory. Indifference and a rogue doctor doing it for money for instance, would make sense.
      - mitjak 6y ago
        we have a limited set of evidence and hysterectomies are one recent example. we just might know facts about other hospitals at this point. do you honestly expect the government to be an stellar example of transparency when it comes to forced sterilization?? you seem to think there are other explanations. care to share?
      - justinclift 6y ago
        Hang on. You made out that you don't believe the US has done forced sterilisations. But then respond that it's something you learned about in high school? eg you've literally learned this stuff has happened in the US before, but you can't believe there are people around doing it now?
        aaron695 6y ago
        > Do you say it because of true stories we know about the past and are are taught history repeats itself. Do you think it's true on rote? I asked why from true stories from the past you would apply it to the current day to this situation. With stating factoids, you still have to think how it applies. When have hysterectomies been used for sterilisation?
  - croon 6y ago
    > Who would be doing this? Why? How? Maybe for the same expressed reason they separated children from their parents? Deterrence (which does not work), and sadism (unstated, but obvious).
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    >I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. You should consider that it's possible, rather than accusing that person of essentially being insane. If they were claiming that the US population was being sterilized by something the federal government puts in the water, then sure. But surgical sterilization in these conditions does not require an Illuminati level of conspiracy, and it's over simplistic and dismissive to imply that it does.
ardy42 6y ago
> Not political at all? Do we really think the USA is running something close to a Experimental Concentration Camp? Exactly what are they experimenting on, what don't we know about hysterectomies? I think is 1) this story is probably true, 2) it is not the result of any kind of explicit national policy. My guess is the real problem here is malpractice by the gynecologist coupled with a criminal lack of competent oversight by the prison officials. My understanding is prisons scrape the bottom of the barrel of the medical profession (i.e. hiring doctors with bad records that no one else wants), and the actual complaint focuses on one doctor: > According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients. > “Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.” > “We’ve questioned among ourselves like goodness he’s taking everybody’s stuff out…That’s his specialty, he’s the uterus collector. I know that’s ugly…is he collecting these things or something…Everybody he sees, he’s taking all their uteruses out or he’s taken their tubes out. What in the world.” IMHO, people who are saying (at this point) that this is the result of a systematic policy are jumping to conclusions. If that's true, it'll probably take a least a few weeks for the investigations to confirm it.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Why do you think that people are being sterilized in a camp at the border at which people are not allowed the right for a trial, did not commit any crimes, and are not allowed to leave? Seriously, I'm hoping there is an explanation that is less horrific.

aaron695 6y ago
I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. I don't know how that mind would work. Do you say it because of true stories we know about the past and are are taught history repeats itself. Do you think it's true on rote? Who would be doing this? Why? How? Is it Illuminati, or Republicans, or a systematic breakdown of processes? I don't know what level you are on. I said this in another comment, but if this was a betting market, 50% didn't happen, 30% rogue doctor, 20% something simple I can't think of. For instance I don't think it's true, but I did look to see if you get special compensations if you get a hysterectomy, it could be driven by the women. There's a few other things to look at.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The US has been systematically sterilizing indigenous populations up until the 70s. Why do you think we did that? If we're willing to get sordid, there are definitely reasons to do so; maiming people at the border sends a strong message to would-be asylum seekers, for one. For another, there are people in ICE with strong white supremacist tendencies. We have camps right now where people are not allowed a fair trial, and are not allowed to leave. This is very, very, very fucked. And no, they don't get any compensation for anything. They don't have a US bank account. They are detainees in a weird legal limbo, without any legal status in the US. Why not read the document in the article? In any case, if you have a better explanation, I'm all ears. But it really doesn't compute here.
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    I think a better explanation is that this is a doctor who specializes in hysterectomies and who recommends hysterectomies whenever that isn't outright malpractice, because it's a routine procedure and it pays relatively well. This isn't uncommon practice. Hysterectomies often aren't strictly necessary, just like tonsillectomies, back surgeries or hip replacements. There is no evidence for this really being "masses" of women, or that any of these procedures were entirely unjustified, or that any of this is happening systematically.
- justinclift 6y ago
  > I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. Unfortunately, there appears to be evidence of it. :( eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Unite... That's just a starting point, as it contains both historical info through to the last few years. It gives plenty of references to investigate further though, in case that's of interest.
  - aaron695 6y ago
    You can't just pull out Wikipedia on forced sterilisations we all learned at high school. You have to take that and logically apply that to this situation. Why is there one doctor, the uterus collector, who's known for the supposed sterilisations? If this is at the government level why are there not multiple doctors and hospitals involved? Why are they doing hysterectomies over blocking or cutting the Fallopian tubes? HN should be better than 4chan, it's not, but it should try. You need a holistic theory. Indifference and a rogue doctor doing it for money for instance, would make sense.
    - mitjak 6y ago
      we have a limited set of evidence and hysterectomies are one recent example. we just might know facts about other hospitals at this point. do you honestly expect the government to be an stellar example of transparency when it comes to forced sterilization?? you seem to think there are other explanations. care to share?
    - justinclift 6y ago
      Hang on. You made out that you don't believe the US has done forced sterilisations. But then respond that it's something you learned about in high school? eg you've literally learned this stuff has happened in the US before, but you can't believe there are people around doing it now?
      - aaron695 6y ago
        > Do you say it because of true stories we know about the past and are are taught history repeats itself. Do you think it's true on rote? I asked why from true stories from the past you would apply it to the current day to this situation. With stating factoids, you still have to think how it applies. When have hysterectomies been used for sterilisation?
- croon 6y ago
  > Who would be doing this? Why? How? Maybe for the same expressed reason they separated children from their parents? Deterrence (which does not work), and sadism (unstated, but obvious).
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  >I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks the USA is systematically sterilising people. You should consider that it's possible, rather than accusing that person of essentially being insane. If they were claiming that the US population was being sterilized by something the federal government puts in the water, then sure. But surgical sterilization in these conditions does not require an Illuminati level of conspiracy, and it's over simplistic and dismissive to imply that it does.

ardy42 6y ago

> Not political at all? Do we really think the USA is running something close to a Experimental Concentration Camp? Exactly what are they experimenting on, what don't we know about hysterectomies? I think is 1) this story is probably true, 2) it is not the result of any kind of explicit national policy. My guess is the real problem here is malpractice by the gynecologist coupled with a criminal lack of competent oversight by the prison officials. My understanding is prisons scrape the bottom of the barrel of the medical profession (i.e. hiring doctors with bad records that no one else wants), and the actual complaint focuses on one doctor: > According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients. > “Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.” > “We’ve questioned among ourselves like goodness he’s taking everybody’s stuff out…That’s his specialty, he’s the uterus collector. I know that’s ugly…is he collecting these things or something…Everybody he sees, he’s taking all their uteruses out or he’s taken their tubes out. What in the world.” IMHO, people who are saying (at this point) that this is the result of a systematic policy are jumping to conclusions. If that's true, it'll probably take a least a few weeks for the investigations to confirm it.