5 ms·

Which people have died because of social media radicalization?

by baryphonic 6y ago

MrMan 6y ago
Most recently ones shot by 17 y.o. militia kid
- baryphonic 6y ago
  You mean the 17 y.o. kid chased by an angry mob? The one who shot three people attacking him?[1] Your comment is ambiguous as to whom you are referring, but based on the evidence, I don't think the 17 y.o. kid was the radicalized one. I've also seen no evidence that any of the people involved are/were particularly active on social media (although the one who lived allegedly told his friend he wishes he emptied his entire gun into the 17 y.o.).[2] I also haven't seen any evidence that the 17 y.o. was in a militia (he apparently worked as a life guard), but maybe there is some. This sort of proves my point, though: social media has "radicalized" people into believing claims that lack a factual basis and serve a particular narrative. But this is mostly perpetrated by members of the traditional press, not ordinary social media users. If anything, social media has only radicalized people by privileging members of the traditional press at the expense of the random people, no matter how crazy they are. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648/photo/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563...
  - StellarTabi 6y ago
    Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation?
    - baryphonic 6y ago
      > Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation? The only "Alt-Right" collaborator I know of is a Joe Biden supporter who perpetrated the Charlottesville massacre.[1] Of course, you could try to refute any of the evidence Ngo supplied in his tweets, but since you have nothing yourself, it's much easier to call him names, slander him and generally resort to FUD tactics, ad hominem and guilt by association. If you could actually refute anything Andy Ngo reported (and for all I know, maybe there's plenty), then go ahead and do it. It would be irrelevant to the particular claims I was citing, but at least it would be informative. What you've given us so far is an over-the-top innuendo narrative that is so sleazy even your average MLM salesperson would cringe. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141 https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-mag...
      - StellarTabi 6y ago
        > incoherent whataboutism blaming Joe Biden for nazi attacks yeah dude, tell me more about this alleged "slander" of Ngo, no dude he's a grifter, that's not "FUD", that's old news and not really controversial.
        sershe 6y ago
        Refute it then.
        StellarTabi 6y ago
        Yeah, sure, I just need to first finish debunking the allegations that Hillary is an blue iguana and then deal with the guy claiming the moon is not vegan.
        sershe 6y ago
        Thank you for admitting you are not able to refute it. I didn't really know who Andy Ngo was before, but now I think he might be a credible journalist (of color, too) who did his research and provided evidence, something that is not well liked by idiots across the political spectrum.
  - scollet 6y ago
    Why was he there with a gun and why was the gun loaded with lethal rounds?
    - m0zg 6y ago
      Because there was a _riot_ there and he was protecting property and giving medical help (including to the rioters). Much of Kenosha is burned to the ground.
      - scollet 6y ago
        Aren't the police there for protecting property? It seems to me that carrying a rifle with the intent to apply medical assistance is a military occupation, not a civilian one.
        baryphonic 6y ago
        It turns out the kid himself has some thoughts on this.[1] (I'm linking to Noir's summary not because I agree with him on gun rights or whatever else, but just because he has a concise and factual argument, using the kid's own words from before the fact to cast light on intent and his state of mind, as well as the chaotic events later where he was being chased by a mob and shot at.) I think the boy made a very unfortunate decision to go out there, but the actions of the mob are self-evident justification for why he was carrying a weapon. If he wasn't, he likely would be dead or severely injured today. He pretty clearly extinguishes a dumpster fire that several rioters were pushing toward a set of gas pumps. This enraged the mob, leading them to chase him and even start shooting at or around him. He only fired when he was cornered (whether surrounded by the mob or even literally on his back on the ground), and only at those who were actually attacking him. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE&t=307s&bpctr=1600143898 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE&t=307s&bpctr=160...
        m0zg 6y ago
        > Aren't the police there for protecting property? Kenosha has a democrat mayor, so no. Police had to stay well out of the way, and was frobidden from using any kind of force. Just watch the videos of what transpired. Don't rely on misleading, "fiery but mostly peaceful" CNN edits - watch the whole thing just this once. Watch the interview with Kyle before the events, taken by a journalist embedded with the protesters, as well. Your question indicates you've been quite severely gaslit. Bet you don't even know how many people got shot in CHAZ. I would not go to that area unarmed at that time. The guy Kyle shot in the arm was pointing a Glock pistol at his head at that moment (you can see it on videos from several angles), and later said his only regret was that he didn't kill him.
- m0zg 6y ago
  That was self defense, tho. He wasn't there to start trouble, and his life literally was in danger thanks to, you've guessed it, social media radicalization of the rioters. Kid will walk, and will make millions from defamation settlements.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  In self-defense. In both cases, the kid was running away from them when they attacked.
rbecker 6y ago
This woman, for example: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-dead-after-stating-e2-80-98all-lives-matter-e2-80-99-during-confrontation/ar-BB16Fl4N https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-de...
m0zg 6y ago
You can't be serious with that question. Over 30 people have been murdered in riots and related activity over the past 3 months. Riots are coordinated and sustained using Twitter. Most recent high profile case was Jay Danielson, murdered in cold blood in Portland by Michael Reinoehl. But there are dozens of others. Just a couple of days ago 2 cops were shot in their car.
- baryphonic 6y ago
  Your factual understanding is much better than the average HN poster, so I appreciate that. I only question whether "social media" is some unique bad that has perpetrated this, rather than the traditional media and entertainment establishment or technologies that predated social media. Players have been kneeling at NFL games for years now, every TV news outlet (except for approximately one) has been parroting endless nonsense about various social problems for years (the nonsense has reached a fever pitch these past four years), and our universities have been pushing cultish ideology for a long time as well. (In fact, my personal theory is that a lot of this nonsense is an outgrowth of the Occupy movement in 2012, which seems to have formed long-lasting personal social networks, which social media platforms have made marginally more efficient, but were in no way the only online tool to strengthen bonds. I'd also add that as horrible as I find Danielson's murder and the treatment of the boy in Kenosha (I try not to even say his name, because the zealots are out in force) by the media and social media, social media was also the tool used to identify Reinoehl as his murderer in less than 24 hours. Social media was also the tool that convinced many of us that the boy in Kenosha was actually innocent and acting in self-defense. To frame this differently, what social media platforms did Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot use to recruit and radicalize their supporters? How about Osama bin Laden or the Ayatollah? I know (and I knew when I asked) that there were going to be people truly "radicalized" on social media in a way that is unique, though I did not know any instances of it off the top of my head. Even Twitter, which seems like a completely toxic and horrible place these days, seems almost entirely filled with keyboard warriors who just shitpost. (Insofar as certain groups are using it to coordinate violence and mayhem, someone should put a stop to it.)
  - m0zg 6y ago

Which people have died because of social media radicalization?

MrMan 6y ago

Most recently ones shot by 17 y.o. militia kid

baryphonic 6y ago
You mean the 17 y.o. kid chased by an angry mob? The one who shot three people attacking him?[1] Your comment is ambiguous as to whom you are referring, but based on the evidence, I don't think the 17 y.o. kid was the radicalized one. I've also seen no evidence that any of the people involved are/were particularly active on social media (although the one who lived allegedly told his friend he wishes he emptied his entire gun into the 17 y.o.).[2] I also haven't seen any evidence that the 17 y.o. was in a militia (he apparently worked as a life guard), but maybe there is some. This sort of proves my point, though: social media has "radicalized" people into believing claims that lack a factual basis and serve a particular narrative. But this is mostly perpetrated by members of the traditional press, not ordinary social media users. If anything, social media has only radicalized people by privileging members of the traditional press at the expense of the random people, no matter how crazy they are. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648/photo/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563...
- StellarTabi 6y ago
  Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation?
  - baryphonic 6y ago
    > Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation? The only "Alt-Right" collaborator I know of is a Joe Biden supporter who perpetrated the Charlottesville massacre.[1] Of course, you could try to refute any of the evidence Ngo supplied in his tweets, but since you have nothing yourself, it's much easier to call him names, slander him and generally resort to FUD tactics, ad hominem and guilt by association. If you could actually refute anything Andy Ngo reported (and for all I know, maybe there's plenty), then go ahead and do it. It would be irrelevant to the particular claims I was citing, but at least it would be informative. What you've given us so far is an over-the-top innuendo narrative that is so sleazy even your average MLM salesperson would cringe. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141 https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-mag...
    - StellarTabi 6y ago
      > incoherent whataboutism blaming Joe Biden for nazi attacks yeah dude, tell me more about this alleged "slander" of Ngo, no dude he's a grifter, that's not "FUD", that's old news and not really controversial.
      - sershe 6y ago
        Refute it then.
        StellarTabi 6y ago
        Yeah, sure, I just need to first finish debunking the allegations that Hillary is an blue iguana and then deal with the guy claiming the moon is not vegan.
        sershe 6y ago
        Thank you for admitting you are not able to refute it. I didn't really know who Andy Ngo was before, but now I think he might be a credible journalist (of color, too) who did his research and provided evidence, something that is not well liked by idiots across the political spectrum.
- scollet 6y ago
  Why was he there with a gun and why was the gun loaded with lethal rounds?
  - m0zg 6y ago
    Because there was a _riot_ there and he was protecting property and giving medical help (including to the rioters). Much of Kenosha is burned to the ground.
    - scollet 6y ago
      Aren't the police there for protecting property? It seems to me that carrying a rifle with the intent to apply medical assistance is a military occupation, not a civilian one.
      - baryphonic 6y ago
        It turns out the kid himself has some thoughts on this.[1] (I'm linking to Noir's summary not because I agree with him on gun rights or whatever else, but just because he has a concise and factual argument, using the kid's own words from before the fact to cast light on intent and his state of mind, as well as the chaotic events later where he was being chased by a mob and shot at.) I think the boy made a very unfortunate decision to go out there, but the actions of the mob are self-evident justification for why he was carrying a weapon. If he wasn't, he likely would be dead or severely injured today. He pretty clearly extinguishes a dumpster fire that several rioters were pushing toward a set of gas pumps. This enraged the mob, leading them to chase him and even start shooting at or around him. He only fired when he was cornered (whether surrounded by the mob or even literally on his back on the ground), and only at those who were actually attacking him. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE&t=307s&bpctr=1600143898 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE&t=307s&bpctr=160...
      - m0zg 6y ago
        > Aren't the police there for protecting property? Kenosha has a democrat mayor, so no. Police had to stay well out of the way, and was frobidden from using any kind of force. Just watch the videos of what transpired. Don't rely on misleading, "fiery but mostly peaceful" CNN edits - watch the whole thing just this once. Watch the interview with Kyle before the events, taken by a journalist embedded with the protesters, as well. Your question indicates you've been quite severely gaslit. Bet you don't even know how many people got shot in CHAZ. I would not go to that area unarmed at that time. The guy Kyle shot in the arm was pointing a Glock pistol at his head at that moment (you can see it on videos from several angles), and later said his only regret was that he didn't kill him.
m0zg 6y ago
That was self defense, tho. He wasn't there to start trouble, and his life literally was in danger thanks to, you've guessed it, social media radicalization of the rioters. Kid will walk, and will make millions from defamation settlements.
Viliam1234 6y ago
In self-defense. In both cases, the kid was running away from them when they attacked.

rbecker 6y ago

This woman, for example: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-dead-after-stating-e2-80-98all-lives-matter-e2-80-99-during-confrontation/ar-BB16Fl4N https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-de...

m0zg 6y ago

You can't be serious with that question. Over 30 people have been murdered in riots and related activity over the past 3 months. Riots are coordinated and sustained using Twitter. Most recent high profile case was Jay Danielson, murdered in cold blood in Portland by Michael Reinoehl. But there are dozens of others. Just a couple of days ago 2 cops were shot in their car.

baryphonic 6y ago
Your factual understanding is much better than the average HN poster, so I appreciate that. I only question whether "social media" is some unique bad that has perpetrated this, rather than the traditional media and entertainment establishment or technologies that predated social media. Players have been kneeling at NFL games for years now, every TV news outlet (except for approximately one) has been parroting endless nonsense about various social problems for years (the nonsense has reached a fever pitch these past four years), and our universities have been pushing cultish ideology for a long time as well. (In fact, my personal theory is that a lot of this nonsense is an outgrowth of the Occupy movement in 2012, which seems to have formed long-lasting personal social networks, which social media platforms have made marginally more efficient, but were in no way the only online tool to strengthen bonds. I'd also add that as horrible as I find Danielson's murder and the treatment of the boy in Kenosha (I try not to even say his name, because the zealots are out in force) by the media and social media, social media was also the tool used to identify Reinoehl as his murderer in less than 24 hours. Social media was also the tool that convinced many of us that the boy in Kenosha was actually innocent and acting in self-defense. To frame this differently, what social media platforms did Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot use to recruit and radicalize their supporters? How about Osama bin Laden or the Ayatollah? I know (and I knew when I asked) that there were going to be people truly "radicalized" on social media in a way that is unique, though I did not know any instances of it off the top of my head. Even Twitter, which seems like a completely toxic and horrible place these days, seems almost entirely filled with keyboard warriors who just shitpost. (Insofar as certain groups are using it to coordinate violence and mayhem, someone should put a stop to it.)
- m0zg 6y ago