6 ms·

You don't need to go all the way to Ethiopia to see the harm. Hate speech on Facebook and Twitter is pushing United States dangerously close to civil war, too.

by m0zg 6y ago

You don't need to go all the way to Ethiopia to see the harm. Hate speech on Facebook and Twitter is pushing United States dangerously close to civil war, too. People have literally died in this country because of social media radicalization. Perhaps amplifying the fringes wasn't such a swell idea after all.

baryphonic 6y ago
Which people have died because of social media radicalization?
- MrMan 6y ago
  Most recently ones shot by 17 y.o. militia kid
  - baryphonic 6y ago
    You mean the 17 y.o. kid chased by an angry mob? The one who shot three people attacking him?[1] Your comment is ambiguous as to whom you are referring, but based on the evidence, I don't think the 17 y.o. kid was the radicalized one. I've also seen no evidence that any of the people involved are/were particularly active on social media (although the one who lived allegedly told his friend he wishes he emptied his entire gun into the 17 y.o.).[2] I also haven't seen any evidence that the 17 y.o. was in a militia (he apparently worked as a life guard), but maybe there is some. This sort of proves my point, though: social media has "radicalized" people into believing claims that lack a factual basis and serve a particular narrative. But this is mostly perpetrated by members of the traditional press, not ordinary social media users. If anything, social media has only radicalized people by privileging members of the traditional press at the expense of the random people, no matter how crazy they are. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648/photo/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563...
    - StellarTabi 6y ago
      Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation?
      - baryphonic 6y ago
        > Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation? The only "Alt-Right" collaborator I know of is a Joe Biden supporter who perpetrated the Charlottesville massacre.[1] Of course, you could try to refute any of the evidence Ngo supplied in his tweets, but since you have nothing yourself, it's much easier to call him names, slander him and generally resort to FUD tactics, ad hominem and guilt by association. If you could actually refute anything Andy Ngo reported (and for all I know, maybe there's plenty), then go ahead and do it. It would be irrelevant to the particular claims I was citing, but at least it would be informative. What you've given us so far is an over-the-top innuendo narrative that is so sleazy even your average MLM salesperson would cringe. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141 https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-mag...
        StellarTabi 6y ago
        > incoherent whataboutism blaming Joe Biden for nazi attacks yeah dude, tell me more about this alleged "slander" of Ngo, no dude he's a grifter, that's not "FUD", that's old news and not really controversial.
        sershe 6y ago
        Refute it then.
        StellarTabi 6y ago
        Yeah, sure, I just need to first finish debunking the allegations that Hillary is an blue iguana and then deal with the guy claiming the moon is not vegan.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    That was self defense, tho. He wasn't there to start trouble, and his life literally was in danger thanks to, you've guessed it, social media radicalization of the rioters. Kid will walk, and will make millions from defamation settlements.
  - Viliam1234 6y ago
    In self-defense. In both cases, the kid was running away from them when they attacked.
- rbecker 6y ago
  This woman, for example: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-dead-after-stating-e2-80-98all-lives-matter-e2-80-99-during-confrontation/ar-BB16Fl4N https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-de...
- m0zg 6y ago
  You can't be serious with that question. Over 30 people have been murdered in riots and related activity over the past 3 months. Riots are coordinated and sustained using Twitter. Most recent high profile case was Jay Danielson, murdered in cold blood in Portland by Michael Reinoehl. But there are dozens of others. Just a couple of days ago 2 cops were shot in their car.
  - baryphonic 6y ago
    Your factual understanding is much better than the average HN poster, so I appreciate that. I only question whether "social media" is some unique bad that has perpetrated this, rather than the traditional media and entertainment establishment or technologies that predated social media. Players have been kneeling at NFL games for years now, every TV news outlet (except for approximately one) has been parroting endless nonsense about various social problems for years (the nonsense has reached a fever pitch these past four years), and our universities have been pushing cultish ideology for a long time as well. (In fact, my personal theory is that a lot of this nonsense is an outgrowth of the Occupy movement in 2012, which seems to have formed long-lasting personal social networks, which social media platforms have made marginally more efficient, but were in no way the only online tool to strengthen bonds. I'd also add that as horrible as I find Danielson's murder and the treatment of the boy in Kenosha (I try not to even say his name, because the zealots are out in force) by the media and social media, social media was also the tool used to identify Reinoehl as his murderer in less than 24 hours. Social media was also the tool that convinced many of us that the boy in Kenosha was actually innocent and acting in self-defense. To frame this differently, what social media platforms did Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot use to recruit and radicalize their supporters? How about Osama bin Laden or the Ayatollah? I know (and I knew when I asked) that there were going to be people truly "radicalized" on social media in a way that is unique, though I did not know any instances of it off the top of my head. Even Twitter, which seems like a completely toxic and horrible place these days, seems almost entirely filled with keyboard warriors who just shitpost. (Insofar as certain groups are using it to coordinate violence and mayhem, someone should put a stop to it.)
    - m0zg 6y ago
MrMan 6y ago
It will only get worse in the u.s. as the militias recruit regular folks who are just defending themselves from the radical left
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Let's be clear about who should be "just defending themselves" from whom: "Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study" https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-3...
  - m0zg 6y ago
    I guess David Dorn can take solace in the fact that the looter who executed him on FB live stream while his grandson watched was not a formal Antifa member.
    - dane-pgp 6y ago
      I agree that the statistics would be more useful if everyone who intended to commit a violent criminal act would first become a formal member of a group whose ideology they share. That would help to avoid miscounting False Flag attacks, and relying on individual anecdotes to decide which side is the worst.
  - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
    So idea that anyone in any real number commits political violence is just blow way out of proportion?

by m0zg 6y ago

baryphonic 6y ago

Which people have died because of social media radicalization?

MrMan 6y ago
Most recently ones shot by 17 y.o. militia kid
- baryphonic 6y ago
  You mean the 17 y.o. kid chased by an angry mob? The one who shot three people attacking him?[1] Your comment is ambiguous as to whom you are referring, but based on the evidence, I don't think the 17 y.o. kid was the radicalized one. I've also seen no evidence that any of the people involved are/were particularly active on social media (although the one who lived allegedly told his friend he wishes he emptied his entire gun into the 17 y.o.).[2] I also haven't seen any evidence that the 17 y.o. was in a militia (he apparently worked as a life guard), but maybe there is some. This sort of proves my point, though: social media has "radicalized" people into believing claims that lack a factual basis and serve a particular narrative. But this is mostly perpetrated by members of the traditional press, not ordinary social media users. If anything, social media has only radicalized people by privileging members of the traditional press at the expense of the random people, no matter how crazy they are. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8hkfBDVw&bpctr=1600132912 [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648/photo/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563...
  - StellarTabi 6y ago
    Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation?
    - baryphonic 6y ago
      > Are we really citing alt right collaborator Andy Ngo, who has already been exposed for spreading misinformation? The only "Alt-Right" collaborator I know of is a Joe Biden supporter who perpetrated the Charlottesville massacre.[1] Of course, you could try to refute any of the evidence Ngo supplied in his tweets, but since you have nothing yourself, it's much easier to call him names, slander him and generally resort to FUD tactics, ad hominem and guilt by association. If you could actually refute anything Andy Ngo reported (and for all I know, maybe there's plenty), then go ahead and do it. It would be irrelevant to the particular claims I was citing, but at least it would be informative. What you've given us so far is an over-the-top innuendo narrative that is so sleazy even your average MLM salesperson would cringe. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141 https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-mag...
      - StellarTabi 6y ago
        > incoherent whataboutism blaming Joe Biden for nazi attacks yeah dude, tell me more about this alleged "slander" of Ngo, no dude he's a grifter, that's not "FUD", that's old news and not really controversial.
        sershe 6y ago
        Refute it then.
        StellarTabi 6y ago
        Yeah, sure, I just need to first finish debunking the allegations that Hillary is an blue iguana and then deal with the guy claiming the moon is not vegan.
- m0zg 6y ago
  That was self defense, tho. He wasn't there to start trouble, and his life literally was in danger thanks to, you've guessed it, social media radicalization of the rioters. Kid will walk, and will make millions from defamation settlements.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  In self-defense. In both cases, the kid was running away from them when they attacked.
rbecker 6y ago
This woman, for example: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-dead-after-stating-e2-80-98all-lives-matter-e2-80-99-during-confrontation/ar-BB16Fl4N https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/young-mother-24-shot-de...
m0zg 6y ago
You can't be serious with that question. Over 30 people have been murdered in riots and related activity over the past 3 months. Riots are coordinated and sustained using Twitter. Most recent high profile case was Jay Danielson, murdered in cold blood in Portland by Michael Reinoehl. But there are dozens of others. Just a couple of days ago 2 cops were shot in their car.
- baryphonic 6y ago
  Your factual understanding is much better than the average HN poster, so I appreciate that. I only question whether "social media" is some unique bad that has perpetrated this, rather than the traditional media and entertainment establishment or technologies that predated social media. Players have been kneeling at NFL games for years now, every TV news outlet (except for approximately one) has been parroting endless nonsense about various social problems for years (the nonsense has reached a fever pitch these past four years), and our universities have been pushing cultish ideology for a long time as well. (In fact, my personal theory is that a lot of this nonsense is an outgrowth of the Occupy movement in 2012, which seems to have formed long-lasting personal social networks, which social media platforms have made marginally more efficient, but were in no way the only online tool to strengthen bonds. I'd also add that as horrible as I find Danielson's murder and the treatment of the boy in Kenosha (I try not to even say his name, because the zealots are out in force) by the media and social media, social media was also the tool used to identify Reinoehl as his murderer in less than 24 hours. Social media was also the tool that convinced many of us that the boy in Kenosha was actually innocent and acting in self-defense. To frame this differently, what social media platforms did Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot use to recruit and radicalize their supporters? How about Osama bin Laden or the Ayatollah? I know (and I knew when I asked) that there were going to be people truly "radicalized" on social media in a way that is unique, though I did not know any instances of it off the top of my head. Even Twitter, which seems like a completely toxic and horrible place these days, seems almost entirely filled with keyboard warriors who just shitpost. (Insofar as certain groups are using it to coordinate violence and mayhem, someone should put a stop to it.)
  - m0zg 6y ago

MrMan 6y ago

It will only get worse in the u.s. as the militias recruit regular folks who are just defending themselves from the radical left

dane-pgp 6y ago
Let's be clear about who should be "just defending themselves" from whom: "Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study" https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-3...
- m0zg 6y ago
  I guess David Dorn can take solace in the fact that the looter who executed him on FB live stream while his grandson watched was not a formal Antifa member.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    I agree that the statistics would be more useful if everyone who intended to commit a violent criminal act would first become a formal member of a group whose ideology they share. That would help to avoid miscounting False Flag attacks, and relying on individual anecdotes to decide which side is the worst.
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  So idea that anyone in any real number commits political violence is just blow way out of proportion?