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I've been doing a lot of thinking out loud today about the UK's lamentable state with regards to its technology industry today without much disagreement in my b

I've been doing a lot of thinking out loud today about the UK's lamentable state with regards to its technology industry today without much disagreement in my back channels – perhaps HN will have more interesting things to say? It feels like the UK's failings in the technology space are entirely cultural. Looking back at the 70s and 80s when the UK punched above its weight in the microcomputer space, UK tech companies remained very insular and the people who got rich tended to just retire or move on to other industries. This seems to happen wave after wave in the UK. The big names of any decade are no longer around in the next one because they got rich and quit. The US seems to have a culture of building up business communities in a way the UK doesn't through investment and people staying in the game for multiple decades. There are thousands of paper multi-millionaires who continue to work 40 hour weeks in the US in a way you'd never see in the UK. It's also far less common in the UK for people who got rich off tech to reinvest back into the nascent companies in their space rather than retire. And who's giving multi millions to CS institutions like Imperial or St Andrews in the same way US billionaires do to Stanford and MIT? Where are the charismatic titans of UK technology? Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't put my finger on any of it with any clarity because I don't have my head in the UK tech space too much (I live here but virtually "work in the US", so maybe I'm part of the problem) but something smells funny about British culture when it comes to tech and I'd love to know what the cause of that smell is. The UK is certainly capable of great things. We've seen this in the biomedical, pharma, finance, and energy spaces – how can we be punching above our weight in sectors like those but still have most of our population flocking to American sites like Reddit, Facebook, and Instagram because the local alternatives either don't exist or are terrible?

klelatti 6y ago
I don't have easy answers - it's a complex issue and I don't think it's just about tech but about wider issues with British business in general (how many UK companies have tried and failed in the US?) Agreed on pharma but I'm not sure that there are many good examples of success stories outside of that space in e.g. finance. Just to point out that one reason why Arm was so successful early on was that it looked for business everywhere in the world. I think Robin Saxby spent incredible amounts of time in planes travelling on sales trips. I'm don't think that this is true for many UK companies and / or they are not very good at it. This insularity means that firms are in no position to compete with the scale of US firms when they move into the UK market. Edit: great interview with Robin Saxby, Arm's first CEO, talking about the early days of Arm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO5PsAY5aaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO5PsAY5aaI
ksec 6y ago
>It feels like the UK's failings in the technology space are entirely cultural. Yes, It is cultural. And I think It is more than what you described, Although I may be over generalising it a bit. If you look at the US, all of the large tech companies, or in fact any big companies, not just tech all have the same mentality. Rule the world. Whether that is Finance, Energy, Food, Tech. The home market US was merely a testing ground, they always had an eye on the world. They are greedy, pushy, willing to go the extra miles to close the deal. The sales forces between US, UK and Continental Europe are very different. Where in UK and EU there are more towards making both party happy. US tends to be ruthless. US tech communities and companies also has a rather strange workaholic culture. Where employees are expected to put in the extra hours. But of course the pay in US is also a lot better. It also gives the idea that if you wanted money, go to US, or even working in a US company in the UK, or remote. Most UK / EU tech companies are not salary competitive. Management Style is also different. Which also mean the working environment in tech also flavours US companies. Some of what is common in US is against the norm in UK. This matter in Tech because the space is moving way too fast. Innovation Efficiency is the key. Before you could gasp the basic of one thing you already have to learn another. Compared to other industry you mentioned which tend to have a slower pace, even in finance. what you learned dont change that often. Only the Data changed. Not to mention the Brits culturally aren't very good at marketing. Something the US is exceptionally good at.
- detritus 6y ago
  > Not to mention the Brits culturally aren't very good at marketing. Something the US is exceptionally good at. Strange to hear this - I've always thought that the UK was particularly good at marketing, [English-speaking] world-leading, in fact. The creative aspect at least. Perhaps I'm conflating this with advertising.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Good point on differentiating ads and marketing. UK have some of the best 'communications culture' in the world, which lends to agency style stuff. Marketing, particularly product marketing, is somewhat different. I would still say pretty good though.
jhallenworld 6y ago
For the case of social media sites, maybe this has to do with the culture at UK universities. Perhaps only in the US do you find people who notice other people socializing with computers and then deciding to exploit, scale and monetize it. Did UK students socialize with computers? You bet they did- lots of UK students on USENET/irc back in the day. So where were the greedy businessmen who would exploit that?
jariel 6y ago
This is a good insight. But what you're pointing out is not just a 'UK thing' - it's a 'rest of the world thing'. The US just has an incredible number of people, it seems, who like working. I think it's a combination of love of the craft, egoism/wanting to make a name (never enough, will 'strike it truly rich soon!'), an ingrained habit of work, a commitment to the cause (innovation as a vocation), low cost of living (dollars go far in the US, this might be an inequality problem, you can buy a huge home on the coast), critical masses (the US has large enough centres of excellence, there's a fraternity to it all, and variety), further career stages (semi-retire as investor - there's a lot to invest it), possibility for global impact (American innovations can go far and wide), and sometimes a sense of frugality - think Warren Buffet. Think of how many Bugattis there would be in the Valley, but you just don't see them in lieu of Teslas or Priuses back in the day. Different culture. The UK probably does have far more intergenerational transfer than most places though.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
The US has a big advantage with its large home market. It's always going to be hard to compete against that. Also it doesn't help that we have such a large financial services sector. This sector soaks up a lot of graduates that might otherwise be working in technology. It also makes it harder for other sectors to compete. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease Add a government that spends all its time pandering to the over 60's (hence Brexit) and you can see where we are going wrong.
- declnz 6y ago
  > Also it doesn't help that we have such a large financial services sector. This sector soaks up a lot of graduates that might otherwise be working in technology. Historically - yes, but I'm not so convinced any more; young people / grads here just don't want to go into banking now (understandably IMO), and not sure the Fintech firms (that aren't pure tech) make up that much in terms of grad numbers.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    If anything it's getting worse: https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/316365/applicants-per-job-banking https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/316365/applicants-p...

klelatti 6y ago

I don't have easy answers - it's a complex issue and I don't think it's just about tech but about wider issues with British business in general (how many UK companies have tried and failed in the US?) Agreed on pharma but I'm not sure that there are many good examples of success stories outside of that space in e.g. finance. Just to point out that one reason why Arm was so successful early on was that it looked for business everywhere in the world. I think Robin Saxby spent incredible amounts of time in planes travelling on sales trips. I'm don't think that this is true for many UK companies and / or they are not very good at it. This insularity means that firms are in no position to compete with the scale of US firms when they move into the UK market. Edit: great interview with Robin Saxby, Arm's first CEO, talking about the early days of Arm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO5PsAY5aaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO5PsAY5aaI

ksec 6y ago

>It feels like the UK's failings in the technology space are entirely cultural. Yes, It is cultural. And I think It is more than what you described, Although I may be over generalising it a bit. If you look at the US, all of the large tech companies, or in fact any big companies, not just tech all have the same mentality. Rule the world. Whether that is Finance, Energy, Food, Tech. The home market US was merely a testing ground, they always had an eye on the world. They are greedy, pushy, willing to go the extra miles to close the deal. The sales forces between US, UK and Continental Europe are very different. Where in UK and EU there are more towards making both party happy. US tends to be ruthless. US tech communities and companies also has a rather strange workaholic culture. Where employees are expected to put in the extra hours. But of course the pay in US is also a lot better. It also gives the idea that if you wanted money, go to US, or even working in a US company in the UK, or remote. Most UK / EU tech companies are not salary competitive. Management Style is also different. Which also mean the working environment in tech also flavours US companies. Some of what is common in US is against the norm in UK. This matter in Tech because the space is moving way too fast. Innovation Efficiency is the key. Before you could gasp the basic of one thing you already have to learn another. Compared to other industry you mentioned which tend to have a slower pace, even in finance. what you learned dont change that often. Only the Data changed. Not to mention the Brits culturally aren't very good at marketing. Something the US is exceptionally good at.

detritus 6y ago
> Not to mention the Brits culturally aren't very good at marketing. Something the US is exceptionally good at. Strange to hear this - I've always thought that the UK was particularly good at marketing, [English-speaking] world-leading, in fact. The creative aspect at least. Perhaps I'm conflating this with advertising.
- jariel 6y ago
  Good point on differentiating ads and marketing. UK have some of the best 'communications culture' in the world, which lends to agency style stuff. Marketing, particularly product marketing, is somewhat different. I would still say pretty good though.

jhallenworld 6y ago

For the case of social media sites, maybe this has to do with the culture at UK universities. Perhaps only in the US do you find people who notice other people socializing with computers and then deciding to exploit, scale and monetize it. Did UK students socialize with computers? You bet they did- lots of UK students on USENET/irc back in the day. So where were the greedy businessmen who would exploit that?

jariel 6y ago

This is a good insight. But what you're pointing out is not just a 'UK thing' - it's a 'rest of the world thing'. The US just has an incredible number of people, it seems, who like working. I think it's a combination of love of the craft, egoism/wanting to make a name (never enough, will 'strike it truly rich soon!'), an ingrained habit of work, a commitment to the cause (innovation as a vocation), low cost of living (dollars go far in the US, this might be an inequality problem, you can buy a huge home on the coast), critical masses (the US has large enough centres of excellence, there's a fraternity to it all, and variety), further career stages (semi-retire as investor - there's a lot to invest it), possibility for global impact (American innovations can go far and wide), and sometimes a sense of frugality - think Warren Buffet. Think of how many Bugattis there would be in the Valley, but you just don't see them in lieu of Teslas or Priuses back in the day. Different culture. The UK probably does have far more intergenerational transfer than most places though.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

The US has a big advantage with its large home market. It's always going to be hard to compete against that. Also it doesn't help that we have such a large financial services sector. This sector soaks up a lot of graduates that might otherwise be working in technology. It also makes it harder for other sectors to compete. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease Add a government that spends all its time pandering to the over 60's (hence Brexit) and you can see where we are going wrong.

declnz 6y ago
> Also it doesn't help that we have such a large financial services sector. This sector soaks up a lot of graduates that might otherwise be working in technology. Historically - yes, but I'm not so convinced any more; young people / grads here just don't want to go into banking now (understandably IMO), and not sure the Fintech firms (that aren't pure tech) make up that much in terms of grad numbers.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  If anything it's getting worse: https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/316365/applicants-per-job-banking https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/316365/applicants-p...