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>I think the issue may be that you're defining cancel culture in a way that's very different than what most people in general, and in this thread, do. That's no

by bargl 6y ago

>I think the issue may be that you're defining cancel culture in a way that's very different than what most people in general, and in this thread, do. That's not wholly your fault, but it does mean that the conversation probably won't be fruitful. Just to be clear, I'm using a definition that I did not come up with on my own. Cancel culture doesn't have one definition. I linked a video where T1J kinda covers this. He's not a definitive source, but at least two people are confused by this definition. Examples => I've got to google it. The best example I can think of was the lady who got on the flight and when she landed she didn't have a job. Her tweet was taken out of context, and while made in poor taste still.... kinda lame. Other examples would be the google memo guy (kind of a reverse order firing iirc), the maga hat kid, the lady from brookfield zoo, and the manager at Chipotle off the top of my head. Google some examples of this. Should you post stupid things to Facebook/Twitter? No you shouldn't. Should you get fired for it? I'd lean to the no side more than most people I'd guess. I think free speech is important, but companies have the right to fire people. Is it the end of the world? In most mild cases, not so much. But there are some more extreme cases where there are much more long lasting effects to people. We don't typically hear about it unless the cancellation is something that was taken out of context and some people feel bad for the person being canceled. A lot of times it's just someone getting fired.

joshuamorton 6y ago
> The best example I can think of was the lady who got on the flight and when she landed she didn't have a job. That's Justine Sacco. > Other examples would be the google memo guy (kind of a reverse order firing iirc) I (as a firsthand account) argue that Damore had ample opportunity to contextualize his comments, so I'd disagree that this meets your definition, although there's been so much misleading information since that it's an easy mistake to make. > the maga hat kid Sure. Although there's an argument that he was able to control the narrative eventually. At this point in time the prevailing narrative is that he was libeled by the media, even though legally speaking, that's probably false. > lady from brookfield zoo I honestly can't figure out what you mean. There's a 2019 story about an old lady who crashed her car and may have lost her license? I can't find enough information on this to see why it would be an instance of cancellation. > manager at Chipotle Ok, sort of. I mean she was able to recontextualize the situation and was offered her job back the same week. This is sort of why the sky is falling concerns about cancellation don't resonate with me. The definition you picked is, I'd argue one that frames cancellation as an objectively unfair thing. And one that is concerning even when it ultimately makes the right choice. But the examples you gave don't really meet that objectively bad definition.
- bargl 6y ago
  >But the examples you gave don't really meet that objectively bad definition. I'm not trying to write a dictionary definition. You are correct that my way of phrasing this definition is really objectively bad. What is a non-celebrity, how do we quantify this? If you google people who lost their jobs for facebook posts etc you'll find some example. The ones that concern me more are the people who flashed across your screen, an image, a video, some "Karen" who did something on social media or someone video'd them and their company saw it, then they got fired. The context doesn't get picked up by the news so there really is no story other than a post by someone who was picked up and a life that was ruined. >This is sort of why the sky is falling concerns about cancellation don't resonate with me. The definition you picked is, I'd argue one that frames cancellation as an objectively unfair thing. And one that is concerning even when it ultimately makes the right choice. Fairness, is for courts and groups of people who have time and inclination to look at context to determine. My issue with cancellations I've seen is if you get a post blown up (even moderately so) and you lose your job, no one knows or cares. This is not a sky is falling issue, but it is a new issue that's come up in the modern internet era and Laws lag behind this sort of thing. You should not be able to be fired for being pro-Insert your politician here-. Even annoyingly so. That should not affect where you work, I believe that right now that freedom is at risk on both sides in the US. Is it a top 10 political risk on my whiteboard? No, I don't have a board. But it's an issue, and we can agree to disagree that it even is an issue. You won't get any argument that I made a good definition.

by bargl 6y ago

joshuamorton 6y ago

> The best example I can think of was the lady who got on the flight and when she landed she didn't have a job. That's Justine Sacco. > Other examples would be the google memo guy (kind of a reverse order firing iirc) I (as a firsthand account) argue that Damore had ample opportunity to contextualize his comments, so I'd disagree that this meets your definition, although there's been so much misleading information since that it's an easy mistake to make. > the maga hat kid Sure. Although there's an argument that he was able to control the narrative eventually. At this point in time the prevailing narrative is that he was libeled by the media, even though legally speaking, that's probably false. > lady from brookfield zoo I honestly can't figure out what you mean. There's a 2019 story about an old lady who crashed her car and may have lost her license? I can't find enough information on this to see why it would be an instance of cancellation. > manager at Chipotle Ok, sort of. I mean she was able to recontextualize the situation and was offered her job back the same week. This is sort of why the sky is falling concerns about cancellation don't resonate with me. The definition you picked is, I'd argue one that frames cancellation as an objectively unfair thing. And one that is concerning even when it ultimately makes the right choice. But the examples you gave don't really meet that objectively bad definition.

bargl 6y ago
>But the examples you gave don't really meet that objectively bad definition. I'm not trying to write a dictionary definition. You are correct that my way of phrasing this definition is really objectively bad. What is a non-celebrity, how do we quantify this? If you google people who lost their jobs for facebook posts etc you'll find some example. The ones that concern me more are the people who flashed across your screen, an image, a video, some "Karen" who did something on social media or someone video'd them and their company saw it, then they got fired. The context doesn't get picked up by the news so there really is no story other than a post by someone who was picked up and a life that was ruined. >This is sort of why the sky is falling concerns about cancellation don't resonate with me. The definition you picked is, I'd argue one that frames cancellation as an objectively unfair thing. And one that is concerning even when it ultimately makes the right choice. Fairness, is for courts and groups of people who have time and inclination to look at context to determine. My issue with cancellations I've seen is if you get a post blown up (even moderately so) and you lose your job, no one knows or cares. This is not a sky is falling issue, but it is a new issue that's come up in the modern internet era and Laws lag behind this sort of thing. You should not be able to be fired for being pro-Insert your politician here-. Even annoyingly so. That should not affect where you work, I believe that right now that freedom is at risk on both sides in the US. Is it a top 10 political risk on my whiteboard? No, I don't have a board. But it's an issue, and we can agree to disagree that it even is an issue. You won't get any argument that I made a good definition.