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Phosphine on earth is only created as a product of biological chemistry. This might be the case on Venus too, which would be a first sign of extra-terrestrial l

Phosphine on earth is only created as a product of biological chemistry. This might be the case on Venus too, which would be a first sign of extra-terrestrial life.

juancn 6y ago
It's interesting, but the conditions on Venus are of such high pressure (93 bar) and temperature is so high, that using the fact that phosphine does not appear naturally on earth (by that I mean by non biological means) doesn't mean there is a biological process. Venus is quite a different beast as environments go. There could be a relatively simple process at high pressure/temperature that produces it in abundance (it's not a complex molecule). My point is that until we have evidence of an actual organism, we cannot jump and say "life created this".
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  I think they've already thought through the high pressure/temperature situation. These are professionals and the videos seem to show that they've taken many variables into account.
  - chc 6y ago
    Who is "they"? The scientists who conducted the research did not conclude that this was rock-solid evidence of life, and they plainly note that there are too many unknowns to rule out natural reactions that just don't occur in Earth-like conditions. All they claim is that this is "promising."
    - epicureanideal 6y ago
      I also never said they said this was rock solid evidence of life. I just said they took into account temperature and pressure. Never said other explanations were ruled out.
      - chc 6y ago
        What does "took into account temperature and pressure" mean if we agree there are many unknowns that the temperature and pressure are interacting with? If you weren't trying to say they have ruled out other explanations, I can't figure out what concrete point you were making. From what I can tell reading the article, it sounds like the only thing they've come close to ruling out is that the measurements are faulty.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    From one of the scientist's personal site: "I found that, if detected on a rocky planet, phosphine can only mean life." For one, this assertion seems too certain to be scientific. That they attempted to create phosphine using a non-biological method and were unable to do so does not appear to be proof of anything except perhaps it does indicate likelihood. However, we shouldn't be fooled into believing that nature's creativity does not often exceed our own, even our brightest minds. Jupiter and Saturn are able to produce this molecule and while they don't fit the assertion's limitation of "rocky planet"...Venus certainly has many unique characteristics that may produce this molecule. Professionals get things wrong, too. As Feynman said, "you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest one to fool."
    - andrewflnr 6y ago
      The point about Jupiter and Saturn is specifically addressed in the press conference. The processes that produce phosphine on gas giants rely on a very high partial pressure of hydrogen, whereas Venus has a critical shortage of hydrogen.

Phosphine on earth is only created as a product of biological chemistry. This might be the case on Venus too, which would be a first sign of extra-terrestrial life.

juancn 6y ago

It's interesting, but the conditions on Venus are of such high pressure (93 bar) and temperature is so high, that using the fact that phosphine does not appear naturally on earth (by that I mean by non biological means) doesn't mean there is a biological process. Venus is quite a different beast as environments go. There could be a relatively simple process at high pressure/temperature that produces it in abundance (it's not a complex molecule). My point is that until we have evidence of an actual organism, we cannot jump and say "life created this".

epicureanideal 6y ago
I think they've already thought through the high pressure/temperature situation. These are professionals and the videos seem to show that they've taken many variables into account.
- chc 6y ago
  Who is "they"? The scientists who conducted the research did not conclude that this was rock-solid evidence of life, and they plainly note that there are too many unknowns to rule out natural reactions that just don't occur in Earth-like conditions. All they claim is that this is "promising."
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    I also never said they said this was rock solid evidence of life. I just said they took into account temperature and pressure. Never said other explanations were ruled out.
    - chc 6y ago
      What does "took into account temperature and pressure" mean if we agree there are many unknowns that the temperature and pressure are interacting with? If you weren't trying to say they have ruled out other explanations, I can't figure out what concrete point you were making. From what I can tell reading the article, it sounds like the only thing they've come close to ruling out is that the measurements are faulty.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  From one of the scientist's personal site: "I found that, if detected on a rocky planet, phosphine can only mean life." For one, this assertion seems too certain to be scientific. That they attempted to create phosphine using a non-biological method and were unable to do so does not appear to be proof of anything except perhaps it does indicate likelihood. However, we shouldn't be fooled into believing that nature's creativity does not often exceed our own, even our brightest minds. Jupiter and Saturn are able to produce this molecule and while they don't fit the assertion's limitation of "rocky planet"...Venus certainly has many unique characteristics that may produce this molecule. Professionals get things wrong, too. As Feynman said, "you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest one to fool."
  - andrewflnr 6y ago
    The point about Jupiter and Saturn is specifically addressed in the press conference. The processes that produce phosphine on gas giants rely on a very high partial pressure of hydrogen, whereas Venus has a critical shortage of hydrogen.