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People can't complain about achievement gaps and then also complain about the only ways to lower them. When one parent is in prison and the other is working no

People can't complain about achievement gaps and then also complain about the only ways to lower them. When one parent is in prison and the other is working nonstop, how is a kid supposed to learn from their parents all the things kids are expected to know by kindergarten?

tharne 6y ago
I wasn't complaining about the achievement gap. I think we're placing far too much emphasis on academic performance at the expense of the individual families and certain social classes and cultures, all the while pretending that the very significant moral questions around this approach don't exist. If we're going to have the state effectively raise the children of certain social classes in the name of academic and economic achievement, we need to be clear as day and openly state exactly what we are doing, and why we think it's the right thing to do. My guess is that we haven't had this conversation thus far because to do so would reveal the arrogance of the educated classes in the U.S. and show folks just how little the elites think of them and their families.
- Thlom 6y ago
  In northern Europe 90+% of children between 1 and 6 attends daycare. Both the very rich and the very poor. It's a very good way for the kids to learn critical social skills and having fulfilling days. But I do appreciate the huge differences between the US and Europe, both in the labor market, family and welfare.
rovolo 6y ago
> complain about the only ways to lower them. When you say "the only way", you are ignoring other solutions > When one parent is in prison and the other is working nonstop Should we be putting that parent in prison? Should we be forcing the other parent to work nonstop to provide for their family?
- nitrogen 6y ago
  IMO in a complex, vicious feedback loop like this (namely, cultural and systemic discrepancies in outcomes and opportunities), you have to use every solution, weighted for effectiveness and weighted against backlash and unintended consequences. In some cases you really want state-provided educational daycare. In some you really want the parents to have more time with the kids, in some you really don't (I know personally of some cases in rural "red neck" towns where kids' parents were the worst influence in their lives). If non-violent parents are put in prison, that's a problem. If violent parents are not put in prison, that is also a problem. You have to address peer influences. You have to support families who have the potential to do well. You have to improve access to means of family planning (education, birth control, etc.). You have to try to persuade people to do things differently than the way that keeps them in poverty. You have to do all of these things.

tharne 6y ago

I wasn't complaining about the achievement gap. I think we're placing far too much emphasis on academic performance at the expense of the individual families and certain social classes and cultures, all the while pretending that the very significant moral questions around this approach don't exist. If we're going to have the state effectively raise the children of certain social classes in the name of academic and economic achievement, we need to be clear as day and openly state exactly what we are doing, and why we think it's the right thing to do. My guess is that we haven't had this conversation thus far because to do so would reveal the arrogance of the educated classes in the U.S. and show folks just how little the elites think of them and their families.

Thlom 6y ago
In northern Europe 90+% of children between 1 and 6 attends daycare. Both the very rich and the very poor. It's a very good way for the kids to learn critical social skills and having fulfilling days. But I do appreciate the huge differences between the US and Europe, both in the labor market, family and welfare.

rovolo 6y ago

> complain about the only ways to lower them. When you say "the only way", you are ignoring other solutions > When one parent is in prison and the other is working nonstop Should we be putting that parent in prison? Should we be forcing the other parent to work nonstop to provide for their family?

nitrogen 6y ago
IMO in a complex, vicious feedback loop like this (namely, cultural and systemic discrepancies in outcomes and opportunities), you have to use every solution, weighted for effectiveness and weighted against backlash and unintended consequences. In some cases you really want state-provided educational daycare. In some you really want the parents to have more time with the kids, in some you really don't (I know personally of some cases in rural "red neck" towns where kids' parents were the worst influence in their lives). If non-violent parents are put in prison, that's a problem. If violent parents are not put in prison, that is also a problem. You have to address peer influences. You have to support families who have the potential to do well. You have to improve access to means of family planning (education, birth control, etc.). You have to try to persuade people to do things differently than the way that keeps them in poverty. You have to do all of these things.