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I see this sort of thing a lot on sites for products trying to sell to large businesses, sometimes to the point that it's hard to find an actual product descrip

by Zak 16y ago

I see this sort of thing a lot on sites for products trying to sell to large businesses, sometimes to the point that it's hard to find an actual product description or list of features. I have, several times wanted to yell "but what does your product actually do?" at the person responsible. I am obviously not the target market here, but why do you think this works?

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ryanwanger 16y ago
If I listed all the features of my product, it would overwhelm most people, since 80% of them are only going to use 20% of the features. Those 80% aren't very tech savvy, and reading through everything would make the product sound too complicated. You can imagine that when they show up for the first time, they most important first reaction is: "oh, so this product is for people like me". Though you and I might be people who want to see every single feature first, we're in the minority (ie. not scared that the software will be too complicated).
run4yourlives 16y ago
Because if you were in one of the target groups, you'd be nodding your head as you read it saying: "These people understand my problem(s)". At that point the features don't matter. They understand your problem so well, that odds are they now how to fix it - most potential customers with problems figure someone else knows something they don't. In fact, the target customer is likely to be more receptive to not needing a particular feature if they are convinced that you understand the problem.
- detst 16y ago
  > Because if you were in one of the target groups, you'd be nodding your head as you read it saying: "These people understand my problem(s)". I can't speak for Zak but this is certainly not true for me and many others. If I can't find out what you actually offer, after selling me a nice story about solving my problems, I walk away. It's such a frustrating experience that I assume doing business with them will be just as frustrating so I don't bother contacting them with my questions. I had this happen recently, finding out later that they did almost exactly what I was looking for... and it was a technical product. I can respect that they wanted to market primary to non-technical types but if I can't get the info anywhere on your site, I'm not interested.
  - run4yourlives 16y ago
    To be clear I'm not advocating secrecy. The website should say something about the product of course. People like you, or rather customers like you (and me) are usually the biggest pain in that ass for a company. You not being interested is a much larger problem for you than it is for them. I'm not being insulting, but I am serious. If you are technical enough to read HackerNews, you are probably technical enough in your chosen domain to write the software yourself, or a least come very close to doing so. That means you're also more than likely to push the envelope, demand excellence and try to make the software do something that 99% of the user don't do. While this can sometimes be beneficial, when you have a targeted market it is often just very loud noise. People like you and I tend to be early adopters, and while we are critical for determining market fit, we tend to be a giant pain in the ass once that fit has been found, because most often we are not it. It all comes down to understanding that you are not the target market, even if it's still true that you would have use for the product.
Lost_BiomedE 16y ago
Patio11's talk on this: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved-markets/# http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved... My comment when sharing this link to others: "The premise is that while features are needed for your product to function in a specific way, you are selling the benefits of using this product and not the features. Focusing on the benefits of use, is fundamentally an emotional appeal." Thoughts: If you see the emotional appeal as verifying the benefits of the features, it makes sense. If you see it as them trying to sell you something by using emotion and hiding the features, it won't. I think the best way is a balance of the two where you show the features as linked to emotional appeal. It hits both groups well.
geirfreysson 16y ago
That's a fair point. Customer segmentation can be overdone. There was an interesting article on HBR about research Clayton innovator's-dilemma Christensen was doing into customer segmentation vs. a job-to-be-done approach (http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6496.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6496.html). Once someone clicks on a link that calls out to them as a customer, you need to tell them pretty quickly what you can do and how you can do, i.e. what job you can help them do. On brandregard.com we simply moved the discussion about features down one level, behind a customer segment link. We also discuss features in length below the fold on the landing page.

by Zak 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

ryanwanger 16y ago

If I listed all the features of my product, it would overwhelm most people, since 80% of them are only going to use 20% of the features. Those 80% aren't very tech savvy, and reading through everything would make the product sound too complicated. You can imagine that when they show up for the first time, they most important first reaction is: "oh, so this product is for people like me". Though you and I might be people who want to see every single feature first, we're in the minority (ie. not scared that the software will be too complicated).

run4yourlives 16y ago

Because if you were in one of the target groups, you'd be nodding your head as you read it saying: "These people understand my problem(s)". At that point the features don't matter. They understand your problem so well, that odds are they now how to fix it - most potential customers with problems figure someone else knows something they don't. In fact, the target customer is likely to be more receptive to not needing a particular feature if they are convinced that you understand the problem.

detst 16y ago
> Because if you were in one of the target groups, you'd be nodding your head as you read it saying: "These people understand my problem(s)". I can't speak for Zak but this is certainly not true for me and many others. If I can't find out what you actually offer, after selling me a nice story about solving my problems, I walk away. It's such a frustrating experience that I assume doing business with them will be just as frustrating so I don't bother contacting them with my questions. I had this happen recently, finding out later that they did almost exactly what I was looking for... and it was a technical product. I can respect that they wanted to market primary to non-technical types but if I can't get the info anywhere on your site, I'm not interested.
- run4yourlives 16y ago
  To be clear I'm not advocating secrecy. The website should say something about the product of course. People like you, or rather customers like you (and me) are usually the biggest pain in that ass for a company. You not being interested is a much larger problem for you than it is for them. I'm not being insulting, but I am serious. If you are technical enough to read HackerNews, you are probably technical enough in your chosen domain to write the software yourself, or a least come very close to doing so. That means you're also more than likely to push the envelope, demand excellence and try to make the software do something that 99% of the user don't do. While this can sometimes be beneficial, when you have a targeted market it is often just very loud noise. People like you and I tend to be early adopters, and while we are critical for determining market fit, we tend to be a giant pain in the ass once that fit has been found, because most often we are not it. It all comes down to understanding that you are not the target market, even if it's still true that you would have use for the product.

Lost_BiomedE 16y ago

Patio11's talk on this: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved-markets/# http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved... My comment when sharing this link to others: "The premise is that while features are needed for your product to function in a specific way, you are selling the benefits of using this product and not the features. Focusing on the benefits of use, is fundamentally an emotional appeal." Thoughts: If you see the emotional appeal as verifying the benefits of the features, it makes sense. If you see it as them trying to sell you something by using emotion and hiding the features, it won't. I think the best way is a balance of the two where you show the features as linked to emotional appeal. It hits both groups well.

geirfreysson 16y ago

That's a fair point. Customer segmentation can be overdone. There was an interesting article on HBR about research Clayton innovator's-dilemma Christensen was doing into customer segmentation vs. a job-to-be-done approach (http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6496.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6496.html). Once someone clicks on a link that calls out to them as a customer, you need to tell them pretty quickly what you can do and how you can do, i.e. what job you can help them do. On brandregard.com we simply moved the discussion about features down one level, behind a customer segment link. We also discuss features in length below the fold on the landing page.