16 ms·

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was total

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ignore the fact that these companies hired experts in psychology and paid millions to keep people using their apps, just like child psychologists were deployed to TV advertising in the 80s and 90s? These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Spending hours in an infinite scroll wormhole does not automatically mean you’ve derived something important or worthwhile. It just means you were entertained enough by the possibility something might be good if you just keep scrolling, and that’s a problem for some.

alexmingoia 6y ago
I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Can social media be an addiction? Sure, in the same way videgames can be an addiction. I wouldn’t go as far as saying video games are harmful. Social media is also different in that it’s a means of communication. It does have utility for communicating whereas video games or drinking doesn’t.
- save_ferris 6y ago
  It’s not about how you consciously choose to spend your time, it’s about being able to choose when to stop. I commonly hear from alcoholics that the problem isn’t that they want 1 drink, the problem is that they want 10 drinks. They lack the ability to moderate consumption and be able to consciously stop. Social media struggles from this exact same problem. It’s so easy to just keep scrolling, to just keep seeing what’s further down the feed. Maybe I missed a picture that I would like, or something. This FOMO is intentionally designed and baked into the apps to keep people from leaving them. You can choose to put down the book whenever you want to or need to, and maybe you don’t have a problem putting down social media either. But many, many people do. Just because you don’t feel psychologically pulled in doesn’t mean that it’s not a real addiction. There’s an easy way to test this out on yourself. Commit to going a whole day without checking your favorite social media apps and add the parental control time limit to those apps. If you find yourself unconsciously whipping out your phone and checking social media, you’ll see the prompt to input your parental control code. If you’re anywhere near the statistical average human, you’re gonna find yourself mindlessly checking social media multiple times that day. That’s what I’m talking about.
- messo 6y ago
  > I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Anything can become addictive, really, if we use ASAM's official definition: «People with addiction use substances or engage in behaviors that become compulsive and often continue despite harmful consequences.» The difference between books and feed-scrolling is stark. Books are linear, static and finite, while your feed is ever-changing and adapting to your patterns of behavior – and practically infinite. These differences are huge when it comes to the potential for "continued used despite harmful consequences".
- iamdbtoo 6y ago
  Addicition is defined by its consequences. If you're engaging in a regular activity, that's one thing, but if you can't stop yousrself from doing it, even if it's harming you, that is addiction.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Is the book dynamically changing its content based on what it knows about your psychological profile in order to influence your beliefs and behaviours?
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    The deck of cards isn't changing its contents and yet gambling is an addiction. And if influncing behavior is such a sin why are you speaking? Don't you knoe that could influnce beliefs and behaviors?!
    - mthoms 6y ago
      The outcome of the game is ever-changing. There is always the possibility that next hand (or dice roll) will give you the dopamine rush you crave. That is why it's addictive. But.. that has nothing to do with the premise that reading books can be compared to social media. >And if influncing behavior is such a sin why are you speaking Because I'm on a message board whose accepted purpose is to read and share thoughtful (your comment excluded) ideas and views.
blueterminal 6y ago
> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't lead to any positive solutions. We desperately need stoicism in the west.
- skummetmaelk 6y ago
  Good old personal responsibility. It's your responsibility not to walk into traps laid out to catch you. Why stop people from laying out the traps? They're just trying to make a living, it's perfectly fine!
  - blueterminal 6y ago
    What do you propose to solve this problem besides teaching others to take personal responsibility?
    - messo 6y ago
      Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) This should of course not replace taking personal responsibility, but humans are way to easy to influence / hack to leave it entirely to market forces. Some common ground and basic rules is at the very core of any healthy society or community. Speed limits, traffic lights and bike lanes creates great conditions for a healthy marketplace. An absence of regulations benefits only the biggest and meanest, and usually ends up creating unsustainable systems that is crushed under it's own weight.
      - blueterminal 6y ago
        > Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) Any specific ones? I personally can't think of any at all that would work.
Osiris 6y ago
> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I can't tell you how many times I hear my wife say "I need to get off Facebook" but never does. There's very much an addiction. I use Facebook, but I've found that I spend nearly all my time in specific groups (for me that's motorcycle related groups) because it's a great source of help for "who wants to go riding" or "how do I fix this" or "can I borrow a tool". When it's very topic specific, social media can be really awesome. What my wife complains about is "friends" that are posting about politics. She just wants to hear about their personal lives but wants them to shut the hell up about politics.
- godelski 6y ago
  I often derive the most enjoyment through more niche social media spaces, such as HN or certain subreddits. I think the difficulty I have is that you get pigeonholed. I don't use Reddit as much because I like a few posts on /r/Funny and then my feed is taken over. I don't always want to go there to learn technical stuff, some days I just want memes. Other days I don't want any memes. Content discovery is a difficult challenge but I think it is hard when incentives aren't aligned.
- kbenson 6y ago
  > I can't tell you how many times I hear my wife say "I need to get off Facebook" but never does. There's very much an addiction. My wife says that too. Then while watching this, she said wasn't that interested, got bored, and decided to use Facebook and Instagram next to me instead. It was surreal and disturbing to watch it in that situation. :/

alexmingoia 6y ago

I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Can social media be an addiction? Sure, in the same way videgames can be an addiction. I wouldn’t go as far as saying video games are harmful. Social media is also different in that it’s a means of communication. It does have utility for communicating whereas video games or drinking doesn’t.

save_ferris 6y ago
It’s not about how you consciously choose to spend your time, it’s about being able to choose when to stop. I commonly hear from alcoholics that the problem isn’t that they want 1 drink, the problem is that they want 10 drinks. They lack the ability to moderate consumption and be able to consciously stop. Social media struggles from this exact same problem. It’s so easy to just keep scrolling, to just keep seeing what’s further down the feed. Maybe I missed a picture that I would like, or something. This FOMO is intentionally designed and baked into the apps to keep people from leaving them. You can choose to put down the book whenever you want to or need to, and maybe you don’t have a problem putting down social media either. But many, many people do. Just because you don’t feel psychologically pulled in doesn’t mean that it’s not a real addiction. There’s an easy way to test this out on yourself. Commit to going a whole day without checking your favorite social media apps and add the parental control time limit to those apps. If you find yourself unconsciously whipping out your phone and checking social media, you’ll see the prompt to input your parental control code. If you’re anywhere near the statistical average human, you’re gonna find yourself mindlessly checking social media multiple times that day. That’s what I’m talking about.
messo 6y ago
> I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Anything can become addictive, really, if we use ASAM's official definition: «People with addiction use substances or engage in behaviors that become compulsive and often continue despite harmful consequences.» The difference between books and feed-scrolling is stark. Books are linear, static and finite, while your feed is ever-changing and adapting to your patterns of behavior – and practically infinite. These differences are huge when it comes to the potential for "continued used despite harmful consequences".
iamdbtoo 6y ago
Addicition is defined by its consequences. If you're engaging in a regular activity, that's one thing, but if you can't stop yousrself from doing it, even if it's harming you, that is addiction.
mthoms 6y ago
Is the book dynamically changing its content based on what it knows about your psychological profile in order to influence your beliefs and behaviours?
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  The deck of cards isn't changing its contents and yet gambling is an addiction. And if influncing behavior is such a sin why are you speaking? Don't you knoe that could influnce beliefs and behaviors?!
  - mthoms 6y ago
    The outcome of the game is ever-changing. There is always the possibility that next hand (or dice roll) will give you the dopamine rush you crave. That is why it's addictive. But.. that has nothing to do with the premise that reading books can be compared to social media. >And if influncing behavior is such a sin why are you speaking Because I'm on a message board whose accepted purpose is to read and share thoughtful (your comment excluded) ideas and views.

blueterminal 6y ago

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't lead to any positive solutions. We desperately need stoicism in the west.

skummetmaelk 6y ago
Good old personal responsibility. It's your responsibility not to walk into traps laid out to catch you. Why stop people from laying out the traps? They're just trying to make a living, it's perfectly fine!
- blueterminal 6y ago
  What do you propose to solve this problem besides teaching others to take personal responsibility?
  - messo 6y ago
    Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) This should of course not replace taking personal responsibility, but humans are way to easy to influence / hack to leave it entirely to market forces. Some common ground and basic rules is at the very core of any healthy society or community. Speed limits, traffic lights and bike lanes creates great conditions for a healthy marketplace. An absence of regulations benefits only the biggest and meanest, and usually ends up creating unsustainable systems that is crushed under it's own weight.
    - blueterminal 6y ago
      > Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) Any specific ones? I personally can't think of any at all that would work.

Osiris 6y ago

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I can't tell you how many times I hear my wife say "I need to get off Facebook" but never does. There's very much an addiction. I use Facebook, but I've found that I spend nearly all my time in specific groups (for me that's motorcycle related groups) because it's a great source of help for "who wants to go riding" or "how do I fix this" or "can I borrow a tool". When it's very topic specific, social media can be really awesome. What my wife complains about is "friends" that are posting about politics. She just wants to hear about their personal lives but wants them to shut the hell up about politics.

godelski 6y ago
I often derive the most enjoyment through more niche social media spaces, such as HN or certain subreddits. I think the difficulty I have is that you get pigeonholed. I don't use Reddit as much because I like a few posts on /r/Funny and then my feed is taken over. I don't always want to go there to learn technical stuff, some days I just want memes. Other days I don't want any memes. Content discovery is a difficult challenge but I think it is hard when incentives aren't aligned.
kbenson 6y ago
> I can't tell you how many times I hear my wife say "I need to get off Facebook" but never does. There's very much an addiction. My wife says that too. Then while watching this, she said wasn't that interested, got bored, and decided to use Facebook and Instagram next to me instead. It was surreal and disturbing to watch it in that situation. :/