5 ms·

> legalized bribing in the USA Then that is how it is in the rest of the World. I don't see why USA should be held with a different set of standards when liter

> legalized bribing in the USA Then that is how it is in the rest of the World. I don't see why USA should be held with a different set of standards when literally all elections fought in every part of the world works through donations (be it corporate or private citizens). Very few countries banned corporate donations and those who did actually made it even worse. Take Brazil for instance: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/here-s-what-happened-when-brazil-banned-corporate-donations-in-elections/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/here-s-what-happened-... Only the rich could contest elections (as they used their own money). People from lower/middle income strata hardly received any donations. Banning corporate donations doesn't stop corporates from influencing elections. Corporates can themselves fund and run campaigns on individual issues that concern them and mobilize support with clever messaging. > Money went from person A to person B. Person B made a decision so only person A profitted. I see a pattern. Don't you? Yes everyone can see a "pattern" but that doesn't amount to corruption. That amounts to just an allegation. An allegation needs to be established through some legal route where in it is concluded without shred of doubt that the office was misused for helping out someone. Either a money/document/wiretapping trail that can connect the two things. If you cannot establish it then it remains a "conspiracy theory". Nothing more.

HenryBemis 6y ago
Rich getting mega-rich, and poor remain in poverty. If that is an allegation, then I am a conspiracy freak (I am not). When we speak about USA and you bring Brazil in the discussion (whataboutism), you lower the bar. My "ideal" societies (progress, freedom, respect, and other such 'metrics') do NOT include Brazil, China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Turkey. Brazil has selected as a ruler a former army general* who enjoys militarisation and is a fan of a dictatorship. I think the discussion ends here. Brazil may be doing 100 other things "good", but "showed that in 2010, about 6 percent of the Brazilian population lived in favelas and other slums" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela). 6%? Seriously? I (-apologies for the bias-) prefer to hold in highest standards the EU, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a very few more. Although imperfect, still far better standard of Living than other countries/regiions. That said, my ideal society is a Star Trek (TNG) one, where everyone contributes how they can, in a balance matter, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a food replicator and never goes hungry. *to avoid any misunderstanding, I am a honorable discharged army officer (of my country - NATO member), and I respect the Military-ies and what Military represents (protect the integrity of the land/sea/air)(and do NOT interfere in politics) Edit: Brazil is a corrupt nation. Perhaps if the haves start caring for the have-nots, and the poverty/inequality is reduced, education is improved, then in 10-20-30 years Brazil will be VERY different to what it is now. These things take time. Moving to a good direction won't take you there tomorrow.
- shripadk 6y ago
  > That said, my ideal society is a Star Trek (TNG) one, where everyone contributes how they can, in a balance matter, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a food replicator and never goes hungry. This is where I disagree completely. You are basically advocating for socialism. Socialism has destroyed countries all over the world. I come from a country that practices socialism in most policy implementations that concern society (though we are capitalist in every other way) and literally is a burden on the country. Every resource in the World is finite. You cannot have the case of "never goes hungry" or "free healthcare" without someone having to pay for it and resources being infinite. None of them are true. So how are you going to continue this policy in perpetuity? And do not forget that this is not a one time thing. You would have to account for inflation and disasters that are not in Government control. One pandemic, you have job losses and every bill shoots up. You do not have enough tax payer money to cover every single person in your country when such disasters happen. If it was so easy every country would be implementing it. Even the Nordic nations that tried universal basic income had to abandon it. Free healthcare can be tried out in smaller nations. But do not forget that all these tiny nations that implement such policies are highly dependent on USA. If Trump had enacted a complete lockdown, you would have had all nations that depend on the US suffer big time economically. Then they would be the first to give up socialist policies for pure capitalism.
  - cultus 6y ago
    Capitalism is destroying the entire planet. I think it wins that game.
    - shripadk 6y ago
      > Capitalism is destroying the entire planet. I think it wins that game. 100 million died due to Communism/Socialism in the past century. But yeah, the bad guy is Capitalism here.
      - cultus 6y ago
        That death count gets inflated every time I see it.

HenryBemis 6y ago

Rich getting mega-rich, and poor remain in poverty. If that is an allegation, then I am a conspiracy freak (I am not). When we speak about USA and you bring Brazil in the discussion (whataboutism), you lower the bar. My "ideal" societies (progress, freedom, respect, and other such 'metrics') do NOT include Brazil, China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Turkey. Brazil has selected as a ruler a former army general* who enjoys militarisation and is a fan of a dictatorship. I think the discussion ends here. Brazil may be doing 100 other things "good", but "showed that in 2010, about 6 percent of the Brazilian population lived in favelas and other slums" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela). 6%? Seriously? I (-apologies for the bias-) prefer to hold in highest standards the EU, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a very few more. Although imperfect, still far better standard of Living than other countries/regiions. That said, my ideal society is a Star Trek (TNG) one, where everyone contributes how they can, in a balance matter, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a food replicator and never goes hungry. *to avoid any misunderstanding, I am a honorable discharged army officer (of my country - NATO member), and I respect the Military-ies and what Military represents (protect the integrity of the land/sea/air)(and do NOT interfere in politics) Edit: Brazil is a corrupt nation. Perhaps if the haves start caring for the have-nots, and the poverty/inequality is reduced, education is improved, then in 10-20-30 years Brazil will be VERY different to what it is now. These things take time. Moving to a good direction won't take you there tomorrow.

shripadk 6y ago
> That said, my ideal society is a Star Trek (TNG) one, where everyone contributes how they can, in a balance matter, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a food replicator and never goes hungry. This is where I disagree completely. You are basically advocating for socialism. Socialism has destroyed countries all over the world. I come from a country that practices socialism in most policy implementations that concern society (though we are capitalist in every other way) and literally is a burden on the country. Every resource in the World is finite. You cannot have the case of "never goes hungry" or "free healthcare" without someone having to pay for it and resources being infinite. None of them are true. So how are you going to continue this policy in perpetuity? And do not forget that this is not a one time thing. You would have to account for inflation and disasters that are not in Government control. One pandemic, you have job losses and every bill shoots up. You do not have enough tax payer money to cover every single person in your country when such disasters happen. If it was so easy every country would be implementing it. Even the Nordic nations that tried universal basic income had to abandon it. Free healthcare can be tried out in smaller nations. But do not forget that all these tiny nations that implement such policies are highly dependent on USA. If Trump had enacted a complete lockdown, you would have had all nations that depend on the US suffer big time economically. Then they would be the first to give up socialist policies for pure capitalism.
- cultus 6y ago
  Capitalism is destroying the entire planet. I think it wins that game.
  - shripadk 6y ago
    > Capitalism is destroying the entire planet. I think it wins that game. 100 million died due to Communism/Socialism in the past century. But yeah, the bad guy is Capitalism here.
    - cultus 6y ago
      That death count gets inflated every time I see it.