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I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile norm

I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile normal challenges and hardships in life with what is defined as “stress”? In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful. At the same time stress is a negative thing that affects your health. It’s not clear to me what is defined as stress - I’ve read number of medical definitions and they all sound vague and unsatisfactory.

kernel_pancake 6y ago
Can’t one define ‘useful’ and ‘useless’ stress? For example, stress experienced when learning something challenging would be useful stress, while ruminating about issues we have no control over would be useless stress.
- kiba 6y ago
  I never feel stressed about a really annoying and thorny programming problem, no matter how frustrating it is or seemly insurmountable it is. Ditto for learning anything new. Yet, I would feel stressed about grades and passing, which is entirely different from actual mastery.
  - deathtrader666 6y ago
    A difficult programming problem in isolation is something I, too, enjoy. There's no enjoyment though when the project manager (any other exec) demands that it be solved within a very short time. This is no time for eustress, when I'm being asked for status updates twice a day for 5 days.
- function_seven 6y ago
  I’ll give it a shot. Useful stress is something you can relieve through action. You study and learn the thing, and pass the test. Or you have that difficult conversation. Once you go through it, you feel a sense of pride and accomplishment (sorry). Useless stress is what you feel when you’ve think you’re going to lose your job, or a loved one is sick, or a brush fire is burning a mile away from your house. It’s out of your control and the stress you’re under can’t be harnessed in a useful way. It just sucks.
  - t0mbstone 6y ago
    I like this clarification. If you work out for half an hour and then get off the treadmill, you feel great and accomplished. This is a manageable amount of stress. But for comparison, imagine if you have to run on that treadmill day after day after day, only getting off for regimented breaks and the bare minimum amount of rest required, and you are only allowed two weeks of vacation a year and then it's back to the treadmill. And if you ever stop running on the treadmill, you lose your house and ability to feed yourself and provide care for your family... It gradually wears your soul down to a nub.
    - throw7 6y ago
      Yes, that's called "overtraining". :)
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      > And if you ever stop running on the treadmill, you lose your house and ability to feed yourself and provide care for your family... Not to mention: if, in a moment of weakness, you slow down on a treadmill, braking braces on your legs kick in and start giving resistance, making running harder. Thus any kind of slack or mishap becomes a permanent handicap.
- mft_ 6y ago
  This... plus there’s a time element too. New challenges that one faces might be physiologically stressful, but if they are within your scope to meet and overcome, can also be incredibly motivating - aka ‘good stress’. In my view they become ‘bad stress’ if they are either prolonged (thereby wearing your resilience down) or due to your circumstances you have no power or opportunity to meaningfully meet and overcome them.
- blanche_ 6y ago
  You can also look at how it influences you, like bad stress in making you unable to cope and can cause some mental health issues. At one point there can be just too much, in dog training that is called threshold and individuals have their own capacity. So 3 life events that you would handle no problem separately, could be way worse when they happen at once.
logicchains 6y ago
This article gives a fairly scientific exploration of the biology of stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844123/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844123/
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
Actually in psychology there is exactly that distiction between two types of stress: Eustress and Distress. The first, eustress is what you could call 'positive' stress, stress that you can cope with and that induces change, growth, and learned experience. The second, Distress is stress that is too much for you to cope with either in type or intensity, it's the type of stress that would likely trigger a physical flight or fight response and all the health issues associated. The distinction is tenous but the point is stress is sort of needed, just has to be in a dosage that you at an individual level can cope with.
- kiba 6y ago
  Exercise just doesn't register as stress to me, although you could call it stress. For me, stress is about negative outcomes.
  - WJW 6y ago
    It's fine to have personal definitions, but if something is regularly called "stress" in medical literature then it's not strange that people will use that definition in online discussions as well. :)
nefitty 6y ago
Good point. When I learned about the concept of “eustress” and how it contrasts with “distress”, it gave me a better understanding of how I handled varying types of difficult situations. Eustress is basically stress that improves your performance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress
firecall 6y ago
When someone talks about stress it's normally because they are overloaded. At that point they cant cope. This overload leads to various medium and longer term mental health issues. So practically, when we talk about stress we are normally talking about our inability to cope with inputs and the expectations of output! :-) Source: Am someone with ADHD that sees a Psychologist :-)
prower 6y ago
> In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful Thing is, maybe a boring and uneventful life is all some people want. That doens't mean that nothing should happen at all, but what's the point of enduring constant stress if there is no "boring and uneventful" phase between one stressful event and the other? The boring part should be the default state and the ultimate goal you work towards during stressful times. It's like saying that everyone should work not because they need money to survive, but because "life without work is boring". I, for one, would do perfectly fine without that daily task, thanks.
LatteLazy 6y ago
A few lines that help me: Stress is when you're responsible for something you cannot actually control. Anything else might be pressure or life. But if you cannot control it, you can't actually be responsible for it...
- etripe 6y ago
  As one of the great philosophers of our time, Whitney Cummings, puts it: "let go or be dragged".
  - natmaka 6y ago
    Enchiridion of Epictetus: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/dep/dep102.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/dep/dep102.htm
    - etripe 6y ago
      Interesting, thanks!
sharadov 6y ago
There is "chronic stress" which is caused by unanticipated events, is short term, but nevertheless helps you grow character and get stronger mentally. Then there is "acute stress" which is akin to death by a thousand cuts, which was designed to be activated only in truly stressful situations like fleeing from a tiger, but this has become the norm in our modern jobs.

kernel_pancake 6y ago

Can’t one define ‘useful’ and ‘useless’ stress? For example, stress experienced when learning something challenging would be useful stress, while ruminating about issues we have no control over would be useless stress.

kiba 6y ago
I never feel stressed about a really annoying and thorny programming problem, no matter how frustrating it is or seemly insurmountable it is. Ditto for learning anything new. Yet, I would feel stressed about grades and passing, which is entirely different from actual mastery.
- deathtrader666 6y ago
  A difficult programming problem in isolation is something I, too, enjoy. There's no enjoyment though when the project manager (any other exec) demands that it be solved within a very short time. This is no time for eustress, when I'm being asked for status updates twice a day for 5 days.
function_seven 6y ago
I’ll give it a shot. Useful stress is something you can relieve through action. You study and learn the thing, and pass the test. Or you have that difficult conversation. Once you go through it, you feel a sense of pride and accomplishment (sorry). Useless stress is what you feel when you’ve think you’re going to lose your job, or a loved one is sick, or a brush fire is burning a mile away from your house. It’s out of your control and the stress you’re under can’t be harnessed in a useful way. It just sucks.
- t0mbstone 6y ago
  I like this clarification. If you work out for half an hour and then get off the treadmill, you feel great and accomplished. This is a manageable amount of stress. But for comparison, imagine if you have to run on that treadmill day after day after day, only getting off for regimented breaks and the bare minimum amount of rest required, and you are only allowed two weeks of vacation a year and then it's back to the treadmill. And if you ever stop running on the treadmill, you lose your house and ability to feed yourself and provide care for your family... It gradually wears your soul down to a nub.
  - throw7 6y ago
    Yes, that's called "overtraining". :)
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    > And if you ever stop running on the treadmill, you lose your house and ability to feed yourself and provide care for your family... Not to mention: if, in a moment of weakness, you slow down on a treadmill, braking braces on your legs kick in and start giving resistance, making running harder. Thus any kind of slack or mishap becomes a permanent handicap.
mft_ 6y ago
This... plus there’s a time element too. New challenges that one faces might be physiologically stressful, but if they are within your scope to meet and overcome, can also be incredibly motivating - aka ‘good stress’. In my view they become ‘bad stress’ if they are either prolonged (thereby wearing your resilience down) or due to your circumstances you have no power or opportunity to meaningfully meet and overcome them.
blanche_ 6y ago
You can also look at how it influences you, like bad stress in making you unable to cope and can cause some mental health issues. At one point there can be just too much, in dog training that is called threshold and individuals have their own capacity. So 3 life events that you would handle no problem separately, could be way worse when they happen at once.

logicchains 6y ago

This article gives a fairly scientific exploration of the biology of stress: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844123/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844123/

DoingIsLearning 6y ago

Actually in psychology there is exactly that distiction between two types of stress: Eustress and Distress. The first, eustress is what you could call 'positive' stress, stress that you can cope with and that induces change, growth, and learned experience. The second, Distress is stress that is too much for you to cope with either in type or intensity, it's the type of stress that would likely trigger a physical flight or fight response and all the health issues associated. The distinction is tenous but the point is stress is sort of needed, just has to be in a dosage that you at an individual level can cope with.

kiba 6y ago
Exercise just doesn't register as stress to me, although you could call it stress. For me, stress is about negative outcomes.
- WJW 6y ago
  It's fine to have personal definitions, but if something is regularly called "stress" in medical literature then it's not strange that people will use that definition in online discussions as well. :)

nefitty 6y ago

Good point. When I learned about the concept of “eustress” and how it contrasts with “distress”, it gave me a better understanding of how I handled varying types of difficult situations. Eustress is basically stress that improves your performance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress

firecall 6y ago

When someone talks about stress it's normally because they are overloaded. At that point they cant cope. This overload leads to various medium and longer term mental health issues. So practically, when we talk about stress we are normally talking about our inability to cope with inputs and the expectations of output! :-) Source: Am someone with ADHD that sees a Psychologist :-)

prower 6y ago

> In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful Thing is, maybe a boring and uneventful life is all some people want. That doens't mean that nothing should happen at all, but what's the point of enduring constant stress if there is no "boring and uneventful" phase between one stressful event and the other? The boring part should be the default state and the ultimate goal you work towards during stressful times. It's like saying that everyone should work not because they need money to survive, but because "life without work is boring". I, for one, would do perfectly fine without that daily task, thanks.

LatteLazy 6y ago

A few lines that help me: Stress is when you're responsible for something you cannot actually control. Anything else might be pressure or life. But if you cannot control it, you can't actually be responsible for it...

etripe 6y ago
As one of the great philosophers of our time, Whitney Cummings, puts it: "let go or be dragged".
- natmaka 6y ago
  Enchiridion of Epictetus: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/dep/dep102.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/dep/dep102.htm
  - etripe 6y ago
    Interesting, thanks!

sharadov 6y ago

There is "chronic stress" which is caused by unanticipated events, is short term, but nevertheless helps you grow character and get stronger mentally. Then there is "acute stress" which is akin to death by a thousand cuts, which was designed to be activated only in truly stressful situations like fleeing from a tiger, but this has become the norm in our modern jobs.