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I think librem/purism has a point when you look at it isolated. But when looked at it holistically it completely missess the point. You can put in all the kill

I think librem/purism has a point when you look at it isolated. But when looked at it holistically it completely missess the point. You can put in all the kill switches you want and sure thst will benefit in some small way but until the users data is with Apple/Google/Fb etc it dosnt matter Largely Which phone you use As you are still very exposed. Until that problem is solved (users truly owning their data) everything is simple a bandaid fix. Sure purism/librem might be a slightly better bandaid than what is offered by current vendors But it remains a bandaid never the less. The reality today still is that you can’t have greatly useful tools and it’s super powerful functionality separated from where and how it’s data is stored. Until that is separation comes all these security and privacy issues can’t be solved at its root. Once you look at it holistically you see it’s not just a hardware issue that you are dealing with. You are dealing with a much larger and complex set of issues: user caring about privacy; development of standards and tool that allow vendor agnostic data portability that still are as powerful as google sheets or say maps or keynote etc; pervasiveness of such tools as if only a small population of users are using those tools they are not very useful; business model that supports sustainable monetization of such tools so business can continue to provide such tools. It’s quite complex and kill switches and secure hardware can’t solve for thst. At least not alone.

knocte 6y ago
The perfect is the enemy of the done.
NotUsingLinux 6y ago
Web3 tries to do that. https://web3.foundation/about/ https://web3.foundation/about/
- Tpt 6y ago
  There is also Solid from Tim Berners-Lee https://solidproject.org/ https://solidproject.org/
tempodox 6y ago
What's “thst”? Edit: Seems to be just a typo. I thought it was some obscure acronym and couldn't find a definition that made sense.
- latch 6y ago
  that
cthor 6y ago
One step at a time. I know multiple people who use voice assistants like Alexa that are effectively wiretapping their house. When asked how they feel comfortable with that, they say, "Well, my phone's already compromised anyway..." I think people do care about privacy, but right now they just don't see any practical way to make it happen. The root of it all is the smartphone itself, because "Don't use a smartphone" is not a serious option.
- meowface 6y ago
  Using a voice assistant like Alexa isn't like wiretapping your home. It's introducing a powerful vector and risk for easily wiretapping your home, to be sure, but your phone is a vector for wiretapping your room (and your vicinity wherever you go), as is your laptop or desktop if they have microphones that aren't hardware disabled, as is your smart TV or remote if you have one. It's not effectively wiretapping your home, it's effectively making your home wiretappable, which isn't great but isn't the same thing. It's all about the risk profile you're willing to accept. I personally have much more private information accessible through my phone, computer, and certain cloud accounts than I do from things I'm saying in my home, and I believe a malicious actor (potentially including a large corporation like Amazon or Google) would have a much easier time and/or would be much more likely to engage in tapping one of those sources than a voice assistant in my home. It's certainly very possible - there was a recent story about how a malicious Alexa skill, if downloaded and installed, could siphon your entire voice history - but those sorts of risks also exist for almost any internet-connected device you own. So, in my opinion and going by my own risk profile, those people responding "my phone's already compromised" are behaving rationally.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    "Using a voice assistant like Alexa isn't like wiretapping your home." True. Wire tapping implies it only listens to you during an active "call" to Alexa. Alexa is more like a bugging device.
    - meowface 6y ago
fsflover 6y ago
> The reality today still is that you can’t have greatly useful tools and it’s super powerful functionality separated from where and how it’s data is stored. Until that is separation comes all these security and privacy issues can’t be solved at its root. Not sure what you mean here, sounds very vague. The operating system? PureOS is endorsed by the FSF. Cloud storage? Purism does not force into it and you can use Nextcloud. > business model that supports sustainable monetization of such tools so business can continue to provide such tools. One of the goals of Purism is to influence the phone industry. > development of standards and tool that allow vendor agnostic data portability that still are as powerful as google sheets or say maps or keynote etc GNU/Linux with its packages? > pervasiveness of such tools as if only a small population of users are using those tools they are not very useful Yes, we need open standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard. Do you imply that until everything is an open standard, we cannot have a GNU/Linux phone?

knocte 6y ago

The perfect is the enemy of the done.

NotUsingLinux 6y ago

Web3 tries to do that. https://web3.foundation/about/ https://web3.foundation/about/

Tpt 6y ago
There is also Solid from Tim Berners-Lee https://solidproject.org/ https://solidproject.org/

tempodox 6y ago

What's “thst”? Edit: Seems to be just a typo. I thought it was some obscure acronym and couldn't find a definition that made sense.

latch 6y ago
that

cthor 6y ago

One step at a time. I know multiple people who use voice assistants like Alexa that are effectively wiretapping their house. When asked how they feel comfortable with that, they say, "Well, my phone's already compromised anyway..." I think people do care about privacy, but right now they just don't see any practical way to make it happen. The root of it all is the smartphone itself, because "Don't use a smartphone" is not a serious option.

meowface 6y ago
Using a voice assistant like Alexa isn't like wiretapping your home. It's introducing a powerful vector and risk for easily wiretapping your home, to be sure, but your phone is a vector for wiretapping your room (and your vicinity wherever you go), as is your laptop or desktop if they have microphones that aren't hardware disabled, as is your smart TV or remote if you have one. It's not effectively wiretapping your home, it's effectively making your home wiretappable, which isn't great but isn't the same thing. It's all about the risk profile you're willing to accept. I personally have much more private information accessible through my phone, computer, and certain cloud accounts than I do from things I'm saying in my home, and I believe a malicious actor (potentially including a large corporation like Amazon or Google) would have a much easier time and/or would be much more likely to engage in tapping one of those sources than a voice assistant in my home. It's certainly very possible - there was a recent story about how a malicious Alexa skill, if downloaded and installed, could siphon your entire voice history - but those sorts of risks also exist for almost any internet-connected device you own. So, in my opinion and going by my own risk profile, those people responding "my phone's already compromised" are behaving rationally.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  "Using a voice assistant like Alexa isn't like wiretapping your home." True. Wire tapping implies it only listens to you during an active "call" to Alexa. Alexa is more like a bugging device.
  - meowface 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago

> The reality today still is that you can’t have greatly useful tools and it’s super powerful functionality separated from where and how it’s data is stored. Until that is separation comes all these security and privacy issues can’t be solved at its root. Not sure what you mean here, sounds very vague. The operating system? PureOS is endorsed by the FSF. Cloud storage? Purism does not force into it and you can use Nextcloud. > business model that supports sustainable monetization of such tools so business can continue to provide such tools. One of the goals of Purism is to influence the phone industry. > development of standards and tool that allow vendor agnostic data portability that still are as powerful as google sheets or say maps or keynote etc GNU/Linux with its packages? > pervasiveness of such tools as if only a small population of users are using those tools they are not very useful Yes, we need open standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard. Do you imply that until everything is an open standard, we cannot have a GNU/Linux phone?