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> to Linux just to support the 0.000001% of users Because Windows users don't ever want to write iOS apps? Particularly game devs, who are primarily using Wind

> to Linux just to support the 0.000001% of users Because Windows users don't ever want to write iOS apps? Particularly game devs, who are primarily using Windows computers to develop games because Windows PC is their largest market? None of those people would like to develop iOS games without switching to an entirely new OS? > Not sure what you want from Apple here Open up their SDK to the point where communities like Linux can realistically set up their own build tools or emulators. Don't sue people who are providing iPhone emulator access[0]; instead create code/SDK licensing opportunities for companies to ship these environments to customers/developers without running afoul of copyright laws. I lose sympathy for companies claiming "this is too hard", when they're going out of their way to make the problem harder for other people to solve. I don't know why we're pretending that there's anyone at Apple thinking, "wow, I'd love to make it easy for Windows/Linux devs to target iOS, but it's just too hard for me to engineer." We know that's not really happening, we know that Apple's management is very happy to force developers to buy Macs, we know that's a status quo that Apple has every incentive to reinforce at every opportunity. [0]: https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/16/apples-corellium-lawsuit-is-a-direct-attack-on-ios-emulation/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/16/apples-corellium-lawsuit-...

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
Apple is making money hand over fist with their current ways of doing business. There is no incentive for them to open up their operating systems or SDKs short of a court order or law that requires it.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  Thats not contested. That doesn't mean its wrong to disagree with and not support the way apple does things.
  - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
    If you disagree with Apple and do not want to support them, "vote" with your wallet. Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities, and more vendors with a wider range of device offerings. Purism, PinePhone, and others are even more open than Android, but the software offerings are much more sparse. Apple devices are much more locked down, but offer a polished and curated user experience. While Apple devices are more expensive, they tend to maintain their value better and are generally supported with software updates for much longer than Android devices. Choose what works best for you and your needs.
    - paulcarroty 6y ago
      > Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities and sucks on privacy much more. Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'. So, here's two ways only - open or closed. "Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM.
      - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
        >> and sucks on privacy much more. That depends on what vendor, device, and Android distribution you choose. >> Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'. "More open" meaning apps can be side-loaded on Android devices without needing permission from anyone. "More open" meaning you have a choice of vendors. "More open" meaning there are many marketplaces where you can find or purchase apps. "More open" because more choices are available. >> So, here's two ways only - open or closed. The Android ecosystem has a spectrum of openness depending what vendor, device, Android distribution, and app marketplace(s) you choose. Some vendors lock their devices down more than others. >> "Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM. Really? There are several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions that actually run on devices: https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/ https://replicant.us/ https://replicant.us/ https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/ https://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/
        fsflover 6y ago
        There is no smartphone which can run Android without binary blobs. Exceptions: https://tehnoetic.com/mobile-devices https://tehnoetic.com/mobile-devices, but many essential things just don't work.
        paulcarroty 6y ago
        99.9% of android camera, modem, GPS, wifi drivers are closed. "several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions" also includes proprietary drivers, in most cases they have no choice.
Shared404 6y ago
Preach. Also, pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers.
- pimterry 6y ago
  > pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers Definitely! As an quick example, I make a cross-platform developer tool with no particular focus or obvious bias towards any OS (https://httptoolkit.tech https://httptoolkit.tech), and the active user base is: 44% Windows 42% Mac 14% Linux Developers are everywhere - limiting tools like Apple's to just their platform is a huge disservice.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    That's a cool looking tool. Have you marketed it towards pentesters at all? I guess Burp has that market pretty well locked down, but I'm always open to seeing more competitors. As far as Apple limiting their tools, well, that's why I'll never own an Apple product. Why would I buy a device that I can't develop for?
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Same can be said about Sony, Nintendo having Windows only SDKs, or not being able to target Windows from Linux or macOS (cross compiling only works as much as Wine can help).

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago

Apple is making money hand over fist with their current ways of doing business. There is no incentive for them to open up their operating systems or SDKs short of a court order or law that requires it.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
Thats not contested. That doesn't mean its wrong to disagree with and not support the way apple does things.
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  If you disagree with Apple and do not want to support them, "vote" with your wallet. Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities, and more vendors with a wider range of device offerings. Purism, PinePhone, and others are even more open than Android, but the software offerings are much more sparse. Apple devices are much more locked down, but offer a polished and curated user experience. While Apple devices are more expensive, they tend to maintain their value better and are generally supported with software updates for much longer than Android devices. Choose what works best for you and your needs.
  - paulcarroty 6y ago
    > Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities and sucks on privacy much more. Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'. So, here's two ways only - open or closed. "Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM.
    - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
      >> and sucks on privacy much more. That depends on what vendor, device, and Android distribution you choose. >> Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'. "More open" meaning apps can be side-loaded on Android devices without needing permission from anyone. "More open" meaning you have a choice of vendors. "More open" meaning there are many marketplaces where you can find or purchase apps. "More open" because more choices are available. >> So, here's two ways only - open or closed. The Android ecosystem has a spectrum of openness depending what vendor, device, Android distribution, and app marketplace(s) you choose. Some vendors lock their devices down more than others. >> "Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM. Really? There are several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions that actually run on devices: https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/ https://replicant.us/ https://replicant.us/ https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/ https://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/
      - fsflover 6y ago
        There is no smartphone which can run Android without binary blobs. Exceptions: https://tehnoetic.com/mobile-devices https://tehnoetic.com/mobile-devices, but many essential things just don't work.
      - paulcarroty 6y ago
        99.9% of android camera, modem, GPS, wifi drivers are closed. "several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions" also includes proprietary drivers, in most cases they have no choice.

Shared404 6y ago

Preach. Also, pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers.

pimterry 6y ago
> pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers Definitely! As an quick example, I make a cross-platform developer tool with no particular focus or obvious bias towards any OS (https://httptoolkit.tech https://httptoolkit.tech), and the active user base is: 44% Windows 42% Mac 14% Linux Developers are everywhere - limiting tools like Apple's to just their platform is a huge disservice.
- Shared404 6y ago
  That's a cool looking tool. Have you marketed it towards pentesters at all? I guess Burp has that market pretty well locked down, but I'm always open to seeing more competitors. As far as Apple limiting their tools, well, that's why I'll never own an Apple product. Why would I buy a device that I can't develop for?
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Same can be said about Sony, Nintendo having Windows only SDKs, or not being able to target Windows from Linux or macOS (cross compiling only works as much as Wine can help).