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Can we,for once, hear the opinions of people in the chip industry and not the same tired posts from software folks? NVIDIA Bad! Ok, we get it. Do you have an

Can we,for once, hear the opinions of people in the chip industry and not the same tired posts from software folks? NVIDIA Bad! Ok, we get it. Do you have anything more insightful than that? I'm starting to feel like social media based on upvotes is a utter waste of time. Echo chambers and groupthink. People commenting on things they barely know anything about and getting validation from others who don't know anything. I'd rather pay for insightful commentary and discussion. I feel like reddit going downhill has pushed a new group of users to HN and it's sending it down the tube. Maybe it's time for me to stop participating and get back to work.

diydsp 6y ago
as an embedded dev, the last 2-4 years of STM (major ARM provider) have seen a large degree of integration of specialized hardware into 32-bit microcontrollers. e.g. radios, motor control, AI, 64-bit FPUs, graphics, low-power, etc. I expect more of the same. The only way it could go wrong is if they lose customer focus. Microcontrollers are a competitive, near-commodity market, so companies have to provide valuable features. I don't really know Nvidia well - I only buy their stock! - but they seem to be keeping their customers happy by paying attention to what they need. Perhaps their fabrication will be a boon to micros, as they're usually a few gens behind laptop/server processors.
drivebycomment 6y ago
You're not wrong, but most of HN threads are like this. 80% of comments are low information, Dunning-Kruger effect in action. But among that, there are still some useful gems, so despite what you said, HN is still worth it. If you fold the first two top level comments, the rest have some useful , informed perspective. I don't see this as having that much of an impact on any short to medium term. ARM has too much intricate business dependencies and contracts nVidia can't just get out of. My speculation is that nVidia might be what it takes to push arm to overcome the final huddle into more general purpose and server cpu, and achieve that pipedream of a single binary/ISA running everywhere. Humanity would be better off if a single ISA does become truly universal. Whether business/technology politics will allow that to happen and whether nVidia has enough understanding and the shrewdness to pull that off is to be seen.
- dahart 6y ago
  > Humanity would be better off of a single ISA does become truly universal. This is an interesting thought. I think I would agree with this in the CPU world of the last 20-30 years, but it makes me wonder a few things. Might a universal ISA eliminate major pieces of competitive advantage for chip makers, and/or stall innovation? It does feel like non-vector instructions are somewhat settled, but vector instructions haven't yet, and GPUs are changing rapidly (take NVIDIA's Tensor cores and ray tracing cores for example). With Moore's law coming to an end, a lot of people are talking about special purpose chips more and more, TPUs being a pretty obvious example, and as nice as it might be to settle on a universal ISA, it seems like we're all about to start seeing larger differences more frequently, no? > 80% of comments are low information, Dunning-Kruger effect in action. I really liked all of your comment except this. I have a specific but humble request aside from the negative commentary & assumption about behavior. Please consider erasing the term "Dunning-Kruger effect" from your mind. It is being used here incorrectly, and it is very widely misunderstood and abused. There is no such effect. The experiments in the paper do not show what was claimed, the paper absolutely does not support the popular notion that confidence is a sign of incompetence. (Please read the actual paper -- the experiments demonstrated a positive correlation between confidence and competence!) There have been some very wonderful analyses of how wrong the Dunning-Kruger paper was, yet most people only seem to remember the (incorrect) summary that confidence is a sign of incompetence. https://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/ https://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-...
  - drivebycomment 6y ago
    > Might a universal ISA eliminate major pieces of competitive advantage for chip makers, and/or stall innovation? That's a good question. I didn't try to put all the necessary nuances in a single sentence, so you're right to question a lot of the unsaid assumptions. I don't know for sure at this point the innovation in ISA has run most of its course yet, but I do feel like we kind of have, given how relatively little difference it makes. I think a "truly" universal ISA, if it ever happens, would necessarily have to have a governance and evolution cycles, so that people will have to agree to the core part of the universal ISA, yet have a room and a way to let others experiment various extensions, including vector extensions for example, and have a process to reconcile and agree on the standard adoption. I don't know if that's actually possible - it might be very difficult or impossible for many different reasons. But if such can happen, that would be beneficial, as it would reduce certain amount of duplication, and unlock certain new possibilities. > Please consider erasing the term "Dunning-Kruger effect" from your mind. It is being used here incorrectly Duly noted.
paxys 6y ago
You are just starting to feel that now?
- 01100011 6y ago
  I know, right? It's finally hitting me. I am realizing how much of an asshole I've become thanks to the validation of a handful of strangers on the internet. I have caught myself commenting on things I have only cursory knowledge of and being justified by the likes of strangers. I actually believed that the online communities I participated in actually represented the world at large. I'm not quite ready to end my participation in HN, but I'm close. I am looking back on the last 10 years of participation in forums like this and wondering what the hell good it did. I am also suddenly very worried for what sites like Reddit are doing to kids. That process of validation is going to produce some very anti-social, misguided adults. I would rather participate in an argument map style discussion, or, frankly, just read the thoughts of 'experts'.
  - cycloptic 6y ago
    It is best to limit your exposure to these type of sites. There was a post yesterday about Wikipedia being an addictive MMORPG. Well, so are Hacker news, twitter, reddit, and so on...
saiojd 6y ago
Agreed, upvotes are a failed experiment, especially for comments.
systemvoltage 6y ago
Totally. I see a future where people will have edge over others when they pay for information than relying on free sources (except Wikipedia due to its scale, but still, Wikipedia is not a replacement for a proper academic textbook). FT provides insightful commentary from finance/business side of things and their subscription is expensive - rightfully so.

diydsp 6y ago

as an embedded dev, the last 2-4 years of STM (major ARM provider) have seen a large degree of integration of specialized hardware into 32-bit microcontrollers. e.g. radios, motor control, AI, 64-bit FPUs, graphics, low-power, etc. I expect more of the same. The only way it could go wrong is if they lose customer focus. Microcontrollers are a competitive, near-commodity market, so companies have to provide valuable features. I don't really know Nvidia well - I only buy their stock! - but they seem to be keeping their customers happy by paying attention to what they need. Perhaps their fabrication will be a boon to micros, as they're usually a few gens behind laptop/server processors.

drivebycomment 6y ago

You're not wrong, but most of HN threads are like this. 80% of comments are low information, Dunning-Kruger effect in action. But among that, there are still some useful gems, so despite what you said, HN is still worth it. If you fold the first two top level comments, the rest have some useful , informed perspective. I don't see this as having that much of an impact on any short to medium term. ARM has too much intricate business dependencies and contracts nVidia can't just get out of. My speculation is that nVidia might be what it takes to push arm to overcome the final huddle into more general purpose and server cpu, and achieve that pipedream of a single binary/ISA running everywhere. Humanity would be better off if a single ISA does become truly universal. Whether business/technology politics will allow that to happen and whether nVidia has enough understanding and the shrewdness to pull that off is to be seen.

dahart 6y ago
> Humanity would be better off of a single ISA does become truly universal. This is an interesting thought. I think I would agree with this in the CPU world of the last 20-30 years, but it makes me wonder a few things. Might a universal ISA eliminate major pieces of competitive advantage for chip makers, and/or stall innovation? It does feel like non-vector instructions are somewhat settled, but vector instructions haven't yet, and GPUs are changing rapidly (take NVIDIA's Tensor cores and ray tracing cores for example). With Moore's law coming to an end, a lot of people are talking about special purpose chips more and more, TPUs being a pretty obvious example, and as nice as it might be to settle on a universal ISA, it seems like we're all about to start seeing larger differences more frequently, no? > 80% of comments are low information, Dunning-Kruger effect in action. I really liked all of your comment except this. I have a specific but humble request aside from the negative commentary & assumption about behavior. Please consider erasing the term "Dunning-Kruger effect" from your mind. It is being used here incorrectly, and it is very widely misunderstood and abused. There is no such effect. The experiments in the paper do not show what was claimed, the paper absolutely does not support the popular notion that confidence is a sign of incompetence. (Please read the actual paper -- the experiments demonstrated a positive correlation between confidence and competence!) There have been some very wonderful analyses of how wrong the Dunning-Kruger paper was, yet most people only seem to remember the (incorrect) summary that confidence is a sign of incompetence. https://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/ https://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-...
- drivebycomment 6y ago
  > Might a universal ISA eliminate major pieces of competitive advantage for chip makers, and/or stall innovation? That's a good question. I didn't try to put all the necessary nuances in a single sentence, so you're right to question a lot of the unsaid assumptions. I don't know for sure at this point the innovation in ISA has run most of its course yet, but I do feel like we kind of have, given how relatively little difference it makes. I think a "truly" universal ISA, if it ever happens, would necessarily have to have a governance and evolution cycles, so that people will have to agree to the core part of the universal ISA, yet have a room and a way to let others experiment various extensions, including vector extensions for example, and have a process to reconcile and agree on the standard adoption. I don't know if that's actually possible - it might be very difficult or impossible for many different reasons. But if such can happen, that would be beneficial, as it would reduce certain amount of duplication, and unlock certain new possibilities. > Please consider erasing the term "Dunning-Kruger effect" from your mind. It is being used here incorrectly Duly noted.

paxys 6y ago

You are just starting to feel that now?

01100011 6y ago
I know, right? It's finally hitting me. I am realizing how much of an asshole I've become thanks to the validation of a handful of strangers on the internet. I have caught myself commenting on things I have only cursory knowledge of and being justified by the likes of strangers. I actually believed that the online communities I participated in actually represented the world at large. I'm not quite ready to end my participation in HN, but I'm close. I am looking back on the last 10 years of participation in forums like this and wondering what the hell good it did. I am also suddenly very worried for what sites like Reddit are doing to kids. That process of validation is going to produce some very anti-social, misguided adults. I would rather participate in an argument map style discussion, or, frankly, just read the thoughts of 'experts'.
- cycloptic 6y ago
  It is best to limit your exposure to these type of sites. There was a post yesterday about Wikipedia being an addictive MMORPG. Well, so are Hacker news, twitter, reddit, and so on...

saiojd 6y ago

Agreed, upvotes are a failed experiment, especially for comments.

systemvoltage 6y ago

Totally. I see a future where people will have edge over others when they pay for information than relying on free sources (except Wikipedia due to its scale, but still, Wikipedia is not a replacement for a proper academic textbook). FT provides insightful commentary from finance/business side of things and their subscription is expensive - rightfully so.