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I always find it amusing when a policy thinktank founded by Herbert Hoover wants to dispense advice on how to build a strong economy. Welcome to California. W

I always find it amusing when a policy thinktank founded by Herbert Hoover wants to dispense advice on how to build a strong economy. Welcome to California. While we have plenty of problems, fundamentally, if your company can’t cut it here and decides to relocate to Texas, that’s not an indictment of California. It’s weak companies fleeing to a place where the government is more willing to subsidize their operations at the expense of their residents.

refurb 6y ago
So companies leaving have nothing at all to do with how the state is run? You don't think that the housing policy of California has any impact on companies struggling to hire because of housing costs? Because it definitely impacts the Bay Area company I work for.
- djcapelis 6y ago
  Companies are plentiful and as the fifth largest economy in the world we don’t have to fight like pigeons over our cast offs like other states do. In the time that ~700 commercial entities left, how many more do you think were created here? Housing here is a legitimate problem but the companies that flee to Texas because of lower taxes aren’t worth keeping.
  - refurb 6y ago
    the companies that flee to Texas because of lower taxes aren’t worth keeping Famous last words.
    - djcapelis 6y ago
      Are they? If so, we’ve been saying them for about the last 30 years and things seem to be fine.
      - refurb 6y ago
        There are plenty of states who were once economic powerhouses and are either stagnant (Chicago), in decline (Mid-west) or empty shells (Detroit) of what they were. Saying "I don't care if businesses leave" seems like taking for granted that they'll always be there (or want to come to your state).
primrose 6y ago
I'm from the Metro-Detroit area. The city of Detroit did this. Everyone moved out and a few decades later the city had to file for bankruptcy. It took the skyscrapers downtown being at rock bottom prices (and generous state and local incentives) to get businesses to move back. It seems like people in Texas on average are doing better than California.
- djcapelis 6y ago
  This nonsense pundit piece is talking about ~700 or so commercial entities leaving CA. This is a state where that number of corporate entities is a rounding error. I’m shocked the number isn’t higher. We are a long way from Detroit and have an industrial base more diverse than a small handful of powerhouse companies in a specific sector. We also have invested in creating infrastructure for innovation to a level where it isn’t an accident when things happen here. I think using Detroit as a scare tactic to encourage desperate policies to retain companies in a state that’s lousy with them is a pretty far cry from reality. > It seems like people in Texas on average are doing better than California. How do you figure?
  - primrose 6y ago
    The same principal applies. If you make it too costly to do business, business will leave. That or a company from somewhere else will use less taxes and regulations as a competitive advantage. They'll even take losses like shutting down factories. > ~700 or so commercial entities leaving CA It will get worse. It's a trend. > Texas Cheaper housing, less homelessness, less expenses.
    - djcapelis 6y ago
      > If you make it too costly to do business, business will leave. They’ve been saying that for 30 years and the numbers have not significantly changed. > That or a company from somewhere else will use less taxes and regulations as a competitive advantage. > They'll even take losses like shutting down factories. Companies based here are some of the most profitable in the world. Your statements are pure fantasy unanchored to any facts. > Cheaper housing, less homelessness, less expenses. If as many people wanted to live in California as want to live in Texas, it would be cheaper to live here too. In addition, the average California household also makes more, by a not insignificant percentage.
verylittlemeat 6y ago
Doesn't Tesla alone moving from CA to TX refute that considering they could probably afford to operate anywhere they want?
- djcapelis 6y ago
  Wake me up when Tesla moves their management and engineering out of CA rather than just writing snotty tweets on the Internet. Feel free to scroll through yourself: https://www.tesla.com/careers/search#/?country=-1&city=-1 https://www.tesla.com/careers/search#/?country=-1&city=-1 Not only are most of the US based jobs on Tesla’s site still located in CA, most of the better paid higher qualification jobs are too. (Their headquarters remains in CA too.)
kodablah 6y ago
> It’s weak companies fleeing to a place where the government is more willing to subsidize their operations at the expense of their residents. A major problem of large public sectors and large tax burdens is citizenry that thinks a government not taking more than it needs to operate is "subsidizing businesses at the expense of residents". Consider the alternative where representative governments intentionally take less at the behest of their citizens. Granted it's not always that way, but much more so than assuming the residents and business interests don't ever align and the government is always against the residents. This especially doesn't apply in Texas where many of these relocations, while abatements exist, are often in relatively small/growing suburbs and are often encouraged by their residents. If anything, companies are moving from away state level impositions to more local ones where representation is often clearer and it's easier to leave/avoid if you disagree both as a citizen and a business.
- djcapelis 6y ago
  I live in CA rather than Texas because I expect the state to take some of the wealth we create with the common infrastructure we’ve built like excellent public education etc and reinvest it in our communities. That’s why so many companies chose to be here and have their highest paid positions here too. Other communities in other states are welcome to bend over backwards to enthusiastically attract our tablescraps and feel like it’s a win to their communities to have them. But they don’t get to expect to be taken seriously if they tell us to change how we run our state to be more like them.
  - primrose 6y ago
    > excellent public education Looks like Texas has California beat on that metric: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-scho... One of the largest school districts, LA public schools, is notoriously bad. Maybe, it's Texas throwing us scraps.
    - djcapelis 6y ago
      Pick your favorite ranking of world universities and let me know how many California universities you have to pass before you find a Texas institution on the list.

refurb 6y ago

So companies leaving have nothing at all to do with how the state is run? You don't think that the housing policy of California has any impact on companies struggling to hire because of housing costs? Because it definitely impacts the Bay Area company I work for.

djcapelis 6y ago
Companies are plentiful and as the fifth largest economy in the world we don’t have to fight like pigeons over our cast offs like other states do. In the time that ~700 commercial entities left, how many more do you think were created here? Housing here is a legitimate problem but the companies that flee to Texas because of lower taxes aren’t worth keeping.
- refurb 6y ago
  the companies that flee to Texas because of lower taxes aren’t worth keeping Famous last words.
  - djcapelis 6y ago
    Are they? If so, we’ve been saying them for about the last 30 years and things seem to be fine.
    - refurb 6y ago
      There are plenty of states who were once economic powerhouses and are either stagnant (Chicago), in decline (Mid-west) or empty shells (Detroit) of what they were. Saying "I don't care if businesses leave" seems like taking for granted that they'll always be there (or want to come to your state).

primrose 6y ago

I'm from the Metro-Detroit area. The city of Detroit did this. Everyone moved out and a few decades later the city had to file for bankruptcy. It took the skyscrapers downtown being at rock bottom prices (and generous state and local incentives) to get businesses to move back. It seems like people in Texas on average are doing better than California.

djcapelis 6y ago
This nonsense pundit piece is talking about ~700 or so commercial entities leaving CA. This is a state where that number of corporate entities is a rounding error. I’m shocked the number isn’t higher. We are a long way from Detroit and have an industrial base more diverse than a small handful of powerhouse companies in a specific sector. We also have invested in creating infrastructure for innovation to a level where it isn’t an accident when things happen here. I think using Detroit as a scare tactic to encourage desperate policies to retain companies in a state that’s lousy with them is a pretty far cry from reality. > It seems like people in Texas on average are doing better than California. How do you figure?
- primrose 6y ago
  The same principal applies. If you make it too costly to do business, business will leave. That or a company from somewhere else will use less taxes and regulations as a competitive advantage. They'll even take losses like shutting down factories. > ~700 or so commercial entities leaving CA It will get worse. It's a trend. > Texas Cheaper housing, less homelessness, less expenses.
  - djcapelis 6y ago
    > If you make it too costly to do business, business will leave. They’ve been saying that for 30 years and the numbers have not significantly changed. > That or a company from somewhere else will use less taxes and regulations as a competitive advantage. > They'll even take losses like shutting down factories. Companies based here are some of the most profitable in the world. Your statements are pure fantasy unanchored to any facts. > Cheaper housing, less homelessness, less expenses. If as many people wanted to live in California as want to live in Texas, it would be cheaper to live here too. In addition, the average California household also makes more, by a not insignificant percentage.

verylittlemeat 6y ago

Doesn't Tesla alone moving from CA to TX refute that considering they could probably afford to operate anywhere they want?

djcapelis 6y ago
Wake me up when Tesla moves their management and engineering out of CA rather than just writing snotty tweets on the Internet. Feel free to scroll through yourself: https://www.tesla.com/careers/search#/?country=-1&city=-1 https://www.tesla.com/careers/search#/?country=-1&city=-1 Not only are most of the US based jobs on Tesla’s site still located in CA, most of the better paid higher qualification jobs are too. (Their headquarters remains in CA too.)

kodablah 6y ago

> It’s weak companies fleeing to a place where the government is more willing to subsidize their operations at the expense of their residents. A major problem of large public sectors and large tax burdens is citizenry that thinks a government not taking more than it needs to operate is "subsidizing businesses at the expense of residents". Consider the alternative where representative governments intentionally take less at the behest of their citizens. Granted it's not always that way, but much more so than assuming the residents and business interests don't ever align and the government is always against the residents. This especially doesn't apply in Texas where many of these relocations, while abatements exist, are often in relatively small/growing suburbs and are often encouraged by their residents. If anything, companies are moving from away state level impositions to more local ones where representation is often clearer and it's easier to leave/avoid if you disagree both as a citizen and a business.

djcapelis 6y ago
I live in CA rather than Texas because I expect the state to take some of the wealth we create with the common infrastructure we’ve built like excellent public education etc and reinvest it in our communities. That’s why so many companies chose to be here and have their highest paid positions here too. Other communities in other states are welcome to bend over backwards to enthusiastically attract our tablescraps and feel like it’s a win to their communities to have them. But they don’t get to expect to be taken seriously if they tell us to change how we run our state to be more like them.
- primrose 6y ago
  > excellent public education Looks like Texas has California beat on that metric: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-scho... One of the largest school districts, LA public schools, is notoriously bad. Maybe, it's Texas throwing us scraps.
  - djcapelis 6y ago
    Pick your favorite ranking of world universities and let me know how many California universities you have to pass before you find a Texas institution on the list.