5 ms·

Maybe the teacher used this because it’s actually simple and using specialized hardware would be just waste and hassle?

by josefrichter 6y ago

Pfhreak 6y ago
I mean maybe. But a basic Wacom is like $100. Surely that would be preferable?
- shard 6y ago
  I don't seem a Wacom providing $100 of extra value compared with a working solution that is free.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    A wacom provides a ton of value that you can't just get on pen and paper. The ability to have infinite space in teaching is extremely useful.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      > A wacom provides a ton of value that you can't just get on pen and paper. I had teachers who I know for a fact had wacom tablets available, as they taught the photography/graphics course, who still chose to use pencil and paper. I have to assume therefore that there is some benefit to using pencil and paper over a wacom.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - shard 6y ago
      I am not denying the value of a Wacom tablet, I'm simply considering the teachers' salaries, and comparing the cost of a $100 Wacom tablet with a free CD and pencil plus a $1 notebook.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    "working solution that is free" With this ingenious level of analysis we'd still be banging rocks together to make fire. Aside from ethics, a class of kids represents millions of future earnings and GDP, this warrants serious approach and best tools money can buy. Instead education is still stuck in 18th century and we have to put up with ridiculius aruments about petty expences.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      > Aside from ethics, a class of kids represents millions of future earnings and GDP, this warrants serious approach and best tools money can buy. Indeed it does. Let's start with paying the teachers more instead of assuming they should pay out of pocket, then, we can have districts pay for the teaching supplies... Oh wait, that all costs tax dollars? Never mind, carry on. Edit: Also, I had teachers who I know for a fact had wacom tablets available, as they taught the photography/graphics course, who still chose to use pencil and paper. I have to assume therefore that there is some benefit to using pencil and paper over a wacom. This being the case, why on earth would they spend more money?
      - ohyeshedid 6y ago
        It's entirely possible they weren't comfortable using a tablet input, or even wanting to learn how to use one. I've seen this firsthand, numerous times in more numerous careers. Either way, it's important to teach children to use technology so they aren't lost when entering higher education or career environments that will use said technology.
        Shared404 6y ago
        This teacher spent more than three years convincing the district to purchase the wacom tablets, and pushed everyone in the photography class to use them as much as possible. I completely agree, but for the purposes of a teacher using a tool to display something to the class, if paper works better, paper works better.
    - 8note 6y ago
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    It's free only if you discount the teacher's time.
    - onion2k 6y ago
      You'd also need to account for the time it'd take to set up and learn to use a Wacom tablet though, which is likely longer than the time it'd take to tape a pencil and a CD to a laptop. This just shows the Wacom tablet is even more expensive.
    - macspoofing 6y ago
      Point taken, but distributing a new piece of hardware to thousands of teachers does require logistical planning, and at the teacher level .. it will require training and support. Some teachers will still take time to adjust their teaching methodology and will struggle and therefore will take time. So no, Wacom tablets are not a magic time-saver that protects teachers time. In fact, it may the case you shipped Wacom tablets and this teacher STILL chooses to use this low-tech approach. Why? Because you didn't do your due diligence and just assumed Wacom tablets will solve this problem and you have ZERO evidence for that. Right now, we're in just scrambling to get the basics sorted out. I think you do want to give teachers some flexibility in figuring out the last mile of this process and potentially roll out things that work, into general policies later ... because there is no way a school board can think through all the challenges.
- tedunangst 6y ago
  And now you need additional software, need to switch between screens, constantly check which feed students see, etc.
- fma 6y ago
  Who is going to pay the $100? The school district that can't afford to buy supplies for students to have a functional classroom, or the poorly paid teacher who has to buy supplies to have a functional classroom.
  - ohyeshedid 6y ago
    They could afford it if they axed a lot of the administration level positions. I've seen school districts with 3-1 administration staff to teacher ratios; for no provided value.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Yes, this is my point. The school should buy them. If the school isn't sufficiently funded, the local area should fund the school. If the local area cannot, then we move up the chain. The funds exist, they should be directed at education, housing, etc.
- bo1024 6y ago
  One big advantage of screensharing (e.g. with Wacom) is much lower bandwidth requirement. If kids' internet connections aren't great, it could be an important improvement.
- markvdb 6y ago
  It's not as if the school (district) is going to buy the teachers what they need. Why not let the teachers decide by how much they want to subsidise education from their hard-earned wages? The sensible path of course would be for the school (district) to provide its teachers for job related expenses. A home office budget should be part of that, especially these days.
- onion2k 6y ago
  But a basic Wacom is like $100. That's half a day's pay for a newly qualified teacher in the US.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Well yeah, but they would need the software as well, and instead of just shifting a mirror they would have to work that software in combination with their webcam etc. There's arguments to be made in favor of simple hardware solutions. Anyway as others have pointed out, if the schools won't fund that, should the teachers be shelling out for supplies like that themselves? Where's the excessively rich tech companies now? They could do some dank virtue signaling and give free hardware to teachers for example. They've earned tens of billions in the past month anyway, if the government isn't doing anything for society, it's down to the companies.
- cthor 6y ago
  Doesn't have the tactile feedback of pencil and paper. Needs additional software and mental overhead to get the sketches on screen.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  Maybe. Maybe not. Introducing new hardware comes with its own logistical issues (from validation of which tablet to choose and figuring out if it even works with the hardware teachers are using, to purchasing, to distribution and training of teachers, to tech support, etc.). It's something that has to be thought through and managed. Given how fast the entire society had to pivot to remote learning, it's also unfair to expect everyone to have it figured out. Maybe Wacom tablets DO make sense, but how the heck do you just figure that out when you're scrambling to just get the basics sorted out? Also, I'm not sure there would be an improvement. ... And you don't even know if this is a problem you need to solve. Did you do an analysis to see if a) this is a wide-scale problem and b) that an expensive hardware solution is the actual answer versus, say, shipping an extra webcam that teachers can position in any way they want, or shipping a cheap plastic clip with a mirror that replicates what this teacher did.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  Honestly I don't think so. I don't think taping a CD to a laptop is perfect, but you can imagine all the technical difficulties that come from using something like a Wacom tablet like home, right? Drivers/software/OS support for the tablet? What program do they use to write in? How do they share that with attendees? How reliable is all this? There's a simplicity to keeping it completely analogue which has much less failure scenarios. I don't have a link, but a saw a tweet where a teacher (?) had 3D printed a mount for a mirror to put on the laptop lid, a more polished version of this same thing, basically an overhead projector for a webcam.

Maybe the teacher used this because it’s actually simple and using specialized hardware would be just waste and hassle?

Pfhreak 6y ago

I mean maybe. But a basic Wacom is like $100. Surely that would be preferable?

shard 6y ago
I don't seem a Wacom providing $100 of extra value compared with a working solution that is free.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  A wacom provides a ton of value that you can't just get on pen and paper. The ability to have infinite space in teaching is extremely useful.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    > A wacom provides a ton of value that you can't just get on pen and paper. I had teachers who I know for a fact had wacom tablets available, as they taught the photography/graphics course, who still chose to use pencil and paper. I have to assume therefore that there is some benefit to using pencil and paper over a wacom.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - shard 6y ago
    I am not denying the value of a Wacom tablet, I'm simply considering the teachers' salaries, and comparing the cost of a $100 Wacom tablet with a free CD and pencil plus a $1 notebook.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  "working solution that is free" With this ingenious level of analysis we'd still be banging rocks together to make fire. Aside from ethics, a class of kids represents millions of future earnings and GDP, this warrants serious approach and best tools money can buy. Instead education is still stuck in 18th century and we have to put up with ridiculius aruments about petty expences.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    > Aside from ethics, a class of kids represents millions of future earnings and GDP, this warrants serious approach and best tools money can buy. Indeed it does. Let's start with paying the teachers more instead of assuming they should pay out of pocket, then, we can have districts pay for the teaching supplies... Oh wait, that all costs tax dollars? Never mind, carry on. Edit: Also, I had teachers who I know for a fact had wacom tablets available, as they taught the photography/graphics course, who still chose to use pencil and paper. I have to assume therefore that there is some benefit to using pencil and paper over a wacom. This being the case, why on earth would they spend more money?
    - ohyeshedid 6y ago
      It's entirely possible they weren't comfortable using a tablet input, or even wanting to learn how to use one. I've seen this firsthand, numerous times in more numerous careers. Either way, it's important to teach children to use technology so they aren't lost when entering higher education or career environments that will use said technology.
      - Shared404 6y ago
        This teacher spent more than three years convincing the district to purchase the wacom tablets, and pushed everyone in the photography class to use them as much as possible. I completely agree, but for the purposes of a teacher using a tool to display something to the class, if paper works better, paper works better.
  - 8note 6y ago
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  It's free only if you discount the teacher's time.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    You'd also need to account for the time it'd take to set up and learn to use a Wacom tablet though, which is likely longer than the time it'd take to tape a pencil and a CD to a laptop. This just shows the Wacom tablet is even more expensive.
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    Point taken, but distributing a new piece of hardware to thousands of teachers does require logistical planning, and at the teacher level .. it will require training and support. Some teachers will still take time to adjust their teaching methodology and will struggle and therefore will take time. So no, Wacom tablets are not a magic time-saver that protects teachers time. In fact, it may the case you shipped Wacom tablets and this teacher STILL chooses to use this low-tech approach. Why? Because you didn't do your due diligence and just assumed Wacom tablets will solve this problem and you have ZERO evidence for that. Right now, we're in just scrambling to get the basics sorted out. I think you do want to give teachers some flexibility in figuring out the last mile of this process and potentially roll out things that work, into general policies later ... because there is no way a school board can think through all the challenges.
tedunangst 6y ago
And now you need additional software, need to switch between screens, constantly check which feed students see, etc.
fma 6y ago
Who is going to pay the $100? The school district that can't afford to buy supplies for students to have a functional classroom, or the poorly paid teacher who has to buy supplies to have a functional classroom.
- ohyeshedid 6y ago
  They could afford it if they axed a lot of the administration level positions. I've seen school districts with 3-1 administration staff to teacher ratios; for no provided value.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Yes, this is my point. The school should buy them. If the school isn't sufficiently funded, the local area should fund the school. If the local area cannot, then we move up the chain. The funds exist, they should be directed at education, housing, etc.
bo1024 6y ago
One big advantage of screensharing (e.g. with Wacom) is much lower bandwidth requirement. If kids' internet connections aren't great, it could be an important improvement.
markvdb 6y ago
It's not as if the school (district) is going to buy the teachers what they need. Why not let the teachers decide by how much they want to subsidise education from their hard-earned wages? The sensible path of course would be for the school (district) to provide its teachers for job related expenses. A home office budget should be part of that, especially these days.
onion2k 6y ago
But a basic Wacom is like $100. That's half a day's pay for a newly qualified teacher in the US.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Well yeah, but they would need the software as well, and instead of just shifting a mirror they would have to work that software in combination with their webcam etc. There's arguments to be made in favor of simple hardware solutions. Anyway as others have pointed out, if the schools won't fund that, should the teachers be shelling out for supplies like that themselves? Where's the excessively rich tech companies now? They could do some dank virtue signaling and give free hardware to teachers for example. They've earned tens of billions in the past month anyway, if the government isn't doing anything for society, it's down to the companies.
cthor 6y ago
Doesn't have the tactile feedback of pencil and paper. Needs additional software and mental overhead to get the sketches on screen.
macspoofing 6y ago
Maybe. Maybe not. Introducing new hardware comes with its own logistical issues (from validation of which tablet to choose and figuring out if it even works with the hardware teachers are using, to purchasing, to distribution and training of teachers, to tech support, etc.). It's something that has to be thought through and managed. Given how fast the entire society had to pivot to remote learning, it's also unfair to expect everyone to have it figured out. Maybe Wacom tablets DO make sense, but how the heck do you just figure that out when you're scrambling to just get the basics sorted out? Also, I'm not sure there would be an improvement. ... And you don't even know if this is a problem you need to solve. Did you do an analysis to see if a) this is a wide-scale problem and b) that an expensive hardware solution is the actual answer versus, say, shipping an extra webcam that teachers can position in any way they want, or shipping a cheap plastic clip with a mirror that replicates what this teacher did.
madeofpalk 6y ago
Honestly I don't think so. I don't think taping a CD to a laptop is perfect, but you can imagine all the technical difficulties that come from using something like a Wacom tablet like home, right? Drivers/software/OS support for the tablet? What program do they use to write in? How do they share that with attendees? How reliable is all this? There's a simplicity to keeping it completely analogue which has much less failure scenarios. I don't have a link, but a saw a tweet where a teacher (?) had 3D printed a mount for a mirror to put on the laptop lid, a more polished version of this same thing, basically an overhead projector for a webcam.