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जुगाड़ is just "kludge" / "hack" / "cobbled-together solution" / "half-baked method" in general, not "lifehack" specifically. The submission makes it out to be

जुगाड़ is just "kludge" / "hack" / "cobbled-together solution" / "half-baked method" in general, not "lifehack" specifically. The submission makes it out to be some amazing cultural thing, but I've more commonly heard it used with a negative connotation.

OJFord 6y ago
धन्यवाद, I'm learning Hindi and was just curious about what it actually meant. 'Makes it out to be some amazing cultural thing' is I suppose quite common (or substitute 'amazing' for anything broad) - 'curry' is an obvious example, it presumably comes from कढ़ी, in turn from the leaf/herb, which is one very specific (very delicious, IMO) dish, yet used over here like it just means (Indian) food. I digress. I can see why it's useful to cling to a term to discuss a phenomenon or even a non-unique idea in the context of a particular place, but really, imagine (as a non-Indian) reading this with <country> in place for 'India', and Agile (or something) for 'jugaad'. Egh. I'm all for intercultural learning or whatever, but as part of that we surely have to look at what's 'a thing' to learn and what isn't.
- kranner 6y ago
  Curry and कढ़ी are false cognates, AFAIK. According to Wikipedia [1]: "Curry is an anglicised form of the Tamil word kaṟi meaning 'sauce' or 'relish for rice' that uses the leaves of the curry tree (Murraya koenigii). The word kari is also used in other Dravidian languages, namely in Malayalam, Kannada and Kodava with the meaning of "vegetables (or meat) of any kind (raw or boiled), curry". Kaṟi is described in a mid-17th century Portuguese cookbook by members of the British East India Company, who were trading with Tamil merchants along the Coromandel Coast of southeast India, becoming known as a "spice blend ... called kari podi or curry powder". The first known appearance in its anglicised form (spelled currey) appears in a 1747 book of recipes published by Hannah Glasse." Another theory suggests the same root, but a longer journey via Portuguese settlers: Tamil 'kaṟi' -> Portuguese 'carel' -> English 'curry' [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology
  - vram22 6y ago
    Yep. Kari in Tamil also means meat, I'm not sure if it is of a specific animal (maybe mutton - which is goat meat in India), or a generic term. But AFAIK when used in that sense, it does not include chicken, fish, etc.
    - rusticpenn 6y ago
      Kari basically comes from Coal/wood ( which is also called kari), probably from wood stoves used for cooking.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Surely कढ़ी also comes from कढ़ी पत्ता (curry leaf) doesn't it?
    - kranner 6y ago
      Ah, no it doesn't. कढ़ी comes from the verb काढ़ना, whose past tense is कढ़ी (हुई) [1][2], which in this context means something which has been thickened/reduced over heat. Curry leaves have nothing to do with the etymology of कढ़ी. They are not even used in North Indian variations of Kadhi, as e.g. in Punjab. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhi [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A2%E0%A4%BC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A2%E...
      - OJFord 6y ago
        Oh interesting, thanks, I just assumed! The version I make is totally inauthentic then, having both curry leaves and pakore..! Still, tastes good * shrugs*.
- Arnavion 6y ago
  I actually never heard the word "curry" used to describe those dishes until I started living in foreign countries. In casual Hindi conversation they would just be called by the individual item's name; especially because most Indian dishes are named literally after their primary ingredients [1]. The closest generic word for them is probably sabzi (literally "vegetables"), but I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries. [1]: Palak paneer = palak (spinach) + paneer (cottage cheese); chana masala = chana (garbanzo beans) + masala (spice); matar paneer = matar (peas) + paneer; aloo gobi = aloo (potato) + gobi (cauliflower); and so on.
  - rusticpenn 6y ago
    Thats because its a Tamil word.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Oh of course, I was more mocking my fellow (non-Indian) countrymen, not for a second imagining Indians also call all those things 'curry'. We also have 'naan bread' and 'lentil dal'... I might sympathise with the former if we also said 'ciabatta bread' and 'brioche bread', etc. but we don't, for whatever reason it's unique to naan. > I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries Khaana (food) I suppose! :)
    - Arnavion 6y ago
      >> I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries >Khaana (food) I suppose! :) I meant the word you would put in this conversation: Customer at restaurant: I want four chapattis. Waiter: Okay, and what ____ would you like with that? Customer: One palak paneer and one chicken tikka masala. Khaana won't work there. Sabzi, as I said, would work if it was a vegetarian restaurant so the only choices were vegetarian curries. Playing the conversation in my head, I can only imagine the waiter saying "And what would you like with that?" It might be one of those words that's just straight-up missing and nobody notices, like how Hindi doesn't have a word for "You're welcome." (what you would say as a response to "Thank you.")

OJFord 6y ago

धन्यवाद, I'm learning Hindi and was just curious about what it actually meant. 'Makes it out to be some amazing cultural thing' is I suppose quite common (or substitute 'amazing' for anything broad) - 'curry' is an obvious example, it presumably comes from कढ़ी, in turn from the leaf/herb, which is one very specific (very delicious, IMO) dish, yet used over here like it just means (Indian) food. I digress. I can see why it's useful to cling to a term to discuss a phenomenon or even a non-unique idea in the context of a particular place, but really, imagine (as a non-Indian) reading this with <country> in place for 'India', and Agile (or something) for 'jugaad'. Egh. I'm all for intercultural learning or whatever, but as part of that we surely have to look at what's 'a thing' to learn and what isn't.

kranner 6y ago
Curry and कढ़ी are false cognates, AFAIK. According to Wikipedia [1]: "Curry is an anglicised form of the Tamil word kaṟi meaning 'sauce' or 'relish for rice' that uses the leaves of the curry tree (Murraya koenigii). The word kari is also used in other Dravidian languages, namely in Malayalam, Kannada and Kodava with the meaning of "vegetables (or meat) of any kind (raw or boiled), curry". Kaṟi is described in a mid-17th century Portuguese cookbook by members of the British East India Company, who were trading with Tamil merchants along the Coromandel Coast of southeast India, becoming known as a "spice blend ... called kari podi or curry powder". The first known appearance in its anglicised form (spelled currey) appears in a 1747 book of recipes published by Hannah Glasse." Another theory suggests the same root, but a longer journey via Portuguese settlers: Tamil 'kaṟi' -> Portuguese 'carel' -> English 'curry' [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology
- vram22 6y ago
  Yep. Kari in Tamil also means meat, I'm not sure if it is of a specific animal (maybe mutton - which is goat meat in India), or a generic term. But AFAIK when used in that sense, it does not include chicken, fish, etc.
  - rusticpenn 6y ago
    Kari basically comes from Coal/wood ( which is also called kari), probably from wood stoves used for cooking.
- OJFord 6y ago
  Surely कढ़ी also comes from कढ़ी पत्ता (curry leaf) doesn't it?
  - kranner 6y ago
    Ah, no it doesn't. कढ़ी comes from the verb काढ़ना, whose past tense is कढ़ी (हुई) [1][2], which in this context means something which has been thickened/reduced over heat. Curry leaves have nothing to do with the etymology of कढ़ी. They are not even used in North Indian variations of Kadhi, as e.g. in Punjab. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadhi [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A2%E0%A4%BC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A2%E...
    - OJFord 6y ago
      Oh interesting, thanks, I just assumed! The version I make is totally inauthentic then, having both curry leaves and pakore..! Still, tastes good * shrugs*.
Arnavion 6y ago
I actually never heard the word "curry" used to describe those dishes until I started living in foreign countries. In casual Hindi conversation they would just be called by the individual item's name; especially because most Indian dishes are named literally after their primary ingredients [1]. The closest generic word for them is probably sabzi (literally "vegetables"), but I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries. [1]: Palak paneer = palak (spinach) + paneer (cottage cheese); chana masala = chana (garbanzo beans) + masala (spice); matar paneer = matar (peas) + paneer; aloo gobi = aloo (potato) + gobi (cauliflower); and so on.
- rusticpenn 6y ago
  Thats because its a Tamil word.
- OJFord 6y ago
  Oh of course, I was more mocking my fellow (non-Indian) countrymen, not for a second imagining Indians also call all those things 'curry'. We also have 'naan bread' and 'lentil dal'... I might sympathise with the former if we also said 'ciabatta bread' and 'brioche bread', etc. but we don't, for whatever reason it's unique to naan. > I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries Khaana (food) I suppose! :)
  - Arnavion 6y ago
    >> I'm not sure what you'd use for non-vegetarian curries and if there's a generic word that encompasses both veg and non-veg curries >Khaana (food) I suppose! :) I meant the word you would put in this conversation: Customer at restaurant: I want four chapattis. Waiter: Okay, and what ____ would you like with that? Customer: One palak paneer and one chicken tikka masala. Khaana won't work there. Sabzi, as I said, would work if it was a vegetarian restaurant so the only choices were vegetarian curries. Playing the conversation in my head, I can only imagine the waiter saying "And what would you like with that?" It might be one of those words that's just straight-up missing and nobody notices, like how Hindi doesn't have a word for "You're welcome." (what you would say as a response to "Thank you.")