7 ms·

If this were true and if abiogenesis had been independent from life on Earth, we could basically assume that it is certain that life arises on planets with suit

If this were true and if abiogenesis had been independent from life on Earth, we could basically assume that it is certain that life arises on planets with suitable conditions (as they were once in the history of Venus). In this case, the universe basically must teem with life in one form or another. These might be the biggest ifs one could imagine but I'm really excited for the follow-ups... (Cross-posted from another thread, as the other doesn't seem to gain traction)

umvi 6y ago
Seems more likely to me that if there is life on Venus, it was probably carried there from Earth at some point and probably has DNA/RNA base just like Earth life. Would be very interested if it was life with a completely different mechanism for reproduction.
- doctor_eval 6y ago
  Agreed, except that there is no reason that it had to go from Earth to Venus. Venus may have been habitable until 750 MYA.
  - stupendousyappi 6y ago
    Indeed. All else being equal, I'd expect evolution to progress faster in hotter environments with more solar radiation. I wouldn't be surprised if Venusian microorganisms were more advanced, adaptable and capable of surviving an interplanetary journey than Earth ones two billion years ago.
    - doctor_eval 6y ago
      I like to think that if we could dig beneath the surface we’ll find the remnants of an underground civilisation there... sort of like the martians from Broken Angels, but on Venus.
saberdancer 6y ago
If this is true, I expect several missions to launch ASAP to try and test this hypothesis. If we could prove abiogenesis separate from Earth we will have good proof that life should be abundant. Very exciting news, I'm hoping that it is proof of life as that will give increase interest and funding for space exploration.
- stupendousyappi 6y ago
  Very exciting news, if by exciting you mean horrifying. It would be near confirmation of the Great Filter.
  - HuShifang 6y ago
    If it all holds up, it means that we saw evidence of alien life for a hundred-plus years (the "unknown absorbers") before we realized it and verified it. Point being, humans can be "slow on the uptake" (and not unreasonably so, given the distances, time scales, and complexities involved). See also the Silurian Hypothesis [0], which I think just got a lot more interesting as a thought experiment. [0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-only-civilization/557180/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-e...
    - alquemist 6y ago
      > Was There a Civilization on Earth Before Humans? [...] Gavin and I don’t believe the Earth once hosted a 50-million-year-old Paleocene civilization. Betteridge's Law confirmed. We can track down fossils billions of year back by observing the way they shaped the encasing rocks, and not once have we noticed a ceramic shard, a metal bit or the silhouette of a plastic object.
      - c22 6y ago
        From the article: > There are fossils, of course. But the fraction of life that gets fossilized is always minuscule and varies a lot depending on time and habitat. It would be easy, therefore, to miss an industrial civilization that lasted only 100,000 years—which would be 500 times longer than our industrial civilization has made it so far.
andrewflnr 6y ago
We could already pretty much assume that, seeing how life appeared on earth almost immediately (geologically, anyway) after it was physically possible. Even panspermia is kind of a stretch when explaining that timeline. But yeah, an independent origin would clinch it.

umvi 6y ago

Seems more likely to me that if there is life on Venus, it was probably carried there from Earth at some point and probably has DNA/RNA base just like Earth life. Would be very interested if it was life with a completely different mechanism for reproduction.

doctor_eval 6y ago
Agreed, except that there is no reason that it had to go from Earth to Venus. Venus may have been habitable until 750 MYA.
- stupendousyappi 6y ago
  Indeed. All else being equal, I'd expect evolution to progress faster in hotter environments with more solar radiation. I wouldn't be surprised if Venusian microorganisms were more advanced, adaptable and capable of surviving an interplanetary journey than Earth ones two billion years ago.
  - doctor_eval 6y ago
    I like to think that if we could dig beneath the surface we’ll find the remnants of an underground civilisation there... sort of like the martians from Broken Angels, but on Venus.

saberdancer 6y ago

If this is true, I expect several missions to launch ASAP to try and test this hypothesis. If we could prove abiogenesis separate from Earth we will have good proof that life should be abundant. Very exciting news, I'm hoping that it is proof of life as that will give increase interest and funding for space exploration.

stupendousyappi 6y ago
Very exciting news, if by exciting you mean horrifying. It would be near confirmation of the Great Filter.
- HuShifang 6y ago
  If it all holds up, it means that we saw evidence of alien life for a hundred-plus years (the "unknown absorbers") before we realized it and verified it. Point being, humans can be "slow on the uptake" (and not unreasonably so, given the distances, time scales, and complexities involved). See also the Silurian Hypothesis [0], which I think just got a lot more interesting as a thought experiment. [0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-only-civilization/557180/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-e...
  - alquemist 6y ago
    > Was There a Civilization on Earth Before Humans? [...] Gavin and I don’t believe the Earth once hosted a 50-million-year-old Paleocene civilization. Betteridge's Law confirmed. We can track down fossils billions of year back by observing the way they shaped the encasing rocks, and not once have we noticed a ceramic shard, a metal bit or the silhouette of a plastic object.
    - c22 6y ago
      From the article: > There are fossils, of course. But the fraction of life that gets fossilized is always minuscule and varies a lot depending on time and habitat. It would be easy, therefore, to miss an industrial civilization that lasted only 100,000 years—which would be 500 times longer than our industrial civilization has made it so far.

andrewflnr 6y ago

We could already pretty much assume that, seeing how life appeared on earth almost immediately (geologically, anyway) after it was physically possible. Even panspermia is kind of a stretch when explaining that timeline. But yeah, an independent origin would clinch it.