3 ms·

> And where is the option for those of us who don’t mind less battery in exchange for actually getting prompt notifications for services we use? You always hav

> And where is the option for those of us who don’t mind less battery in exchange for actually getting prompt notifications for services we use? You always have the option to build your own phone. With easily available components and open source software it’s never been easier. And with cheap and flexible Chinese manufacturing, Kickstarter and Patreon it’s never been easier to manufacture your own phone design. Otherwise, your demands don’t reflect the needs of the vast majority of Google and Apple customers. The world doesn’t revolve around your unique desires.

jlokier 6y ago
> You always have the option to build your own phone. That sounds factually false to me. Seems to me that I can't do it. Others have tried, how's that going? For a start I don't think the components are easily available. Both software and hardware. > "With easily available components and open source software" For me the modern definition of a phone is "a device that can make voice calls, message people on their required messaging network, and give me access to my bank accounts". I don't think I can actually do that with easily available components and open source software right now. It would be interesting to be proved wrong.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Here is someone who did it. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Steve Jobs couldn’t build a phone. But he could build a team that could build a phone. You don’t have the resources of Apple (he didn’t at the start either, just Woz), but you have Patreon and Kickstarter. The main difference between you and Steve Jobs is he didn’t waste his day complaining in the internet about problems, he actually did something to offer solutions for them.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    The Pinephone is lovely, but it cannot provide what I defined as a modern phone, unfortunately. I cannot message people on their required messaging platforms, and I cannot access my bank account with it. That means if I used a Pinephone I would need to carry two phones. This is not someone "complaining" as though to do nothing. It is someone stating the current situation and what needs to be changed. I would dearly like to change this, but your suggestion implies that it's realistic and easy, which is far from the current truth. > Steve Jobs couldn’t build a phone. But he could build a team that could build a phone. You don’t have the resources of Apple (he didn’t at the start either). For the same, simple definition of a modern phone, another gigantic company, Microsoft, tried and failed. It really isn't easy.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Microsoft failed at smartphones because they didn’t offer a compelling unique benefits to the marketplace. Why not add the missing features you need to Pinephone? It just requires writing software. I’m not going to blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are going to find a large market, but you could make something compelling and unique to a large enough audience to fund through a Patreon or Kickstarter. What I will tell you that while every entrepreneurial activity I’ve started has not succeeded, (in fact most have failed), I’ve learned valuable things from every single one. It is one of the greatest ways to learn new technologies, markets and skills.
      - jlokier 6y ago
        > Why not add the missing features you need to Pinephone? It just requires writing software. No, it does not "just" require writing software. - Potentially writing software and reverse engineering will allow me to message people on their required messaging platforms. Matrix is getting there. Maemo on Nokia N900 was excellent at this, but that was a different time; messaging has become more complicated since then. But, though I'm a fine software engineer, it is not feasible to write software to provide all the features I defined as essential in a modern phone: - No amount of writing software will allow me to access my bank account, which requires an Android or iOS app on an unjailbroken device to the best of my knowledge. No, a web browser does not work, it must be the app (crazy but true). Yes I could reverse engineer and crack the existing app to port it, but that would be foolish given the application. As I said, I would love to be proven wrong on this. Obviously I could switch banks, although that's not without its own difficulties and arguably if I have to switch banks, the new device doesn't meet my definition of a modern phone. The problem is not a software-writing problem. This is what I meant by Microsoft couldn't do it. Even though Windows phone was pretty good, it wasn't enough to be pretty good. It needed the essential apps that only 3rd parties could write, and not enough 3rd parties decided to write them. That was not in Microsofts locus of control, just as it isn't in mine. Eventually things may change, if Pinephone and its relatives become more popular or if fashions change. But not at the moment. At the moment, if I got one I would need to carry two devices. (I had two Nokia N900s btw, I'm no stranger to open source phones.)
swiley 6y ago
Nope, because of apple’s anticompetitive behavior I have to keep an iPhone around to talk to my family.

jlokier 6y ago

> You always have the option to build your own phone. That sounds factually false to me. Seems to me that I can't do it. Others have tried, how's that going? For a start I don't think the components are easily available. Both software and hardware. > "With easily available components and open source software" For me the modern definition of a phone is "a device that can make voice calls, message people on their required messaging network, and give me access to my bank accounts". I don't think I can actually do that with easily available components and open source software right now. It would be interesting to be proved wrong.

valuearb 6y ago
Here is someone who did it. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Steve Jobs couldn’t build a phone. But he could build a team that could build a phone. You don’t have the resources of Apple (he didn’t at the start either, just Woz), but you have Patreon and Kickstarter. The main difference between you and Steve Jobs is he didn’t waste his day complaining in the internet about problems, he actually did something to offer solutions for them.
- jlokier 6y ago
  The Pinephone is lovely, but it cannot provide what I defined as a modern phone, unfortunately. I cannot message people on their required messaging platforms, and I cannot access my bank account with it. That means if I used a Pinephone I would need to carry two phones. This is not someone "complaining" as though to do nothing. It is someone stating the current situation and what needs to be changed. I would dearly like to change this, but your suggestion implies that it's realistic and easy, which is far from the current truth. > Steve Jobs couldn’t build a phone. But he could build a team that could build a phone. You don’t have the resources of Apple (he didn’t at the start either). For the same, simple definition of a modern phone, another gigantic company, Microsoft, tried and failed. It really isn't easy.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Microsoft failed at smartphones because they didn’t offer a compelling unique benefits to the marketplace. Why not add the missing features you need to Pinephone? It just requires writing software. I’m not going to blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are going to find a large market, but you could make something compelling and unique to a large enough audience to fund through a Patreon or Kickstarter. What I will tell you that while every entrepreneurial activity I’ve started has not succeeded, (in fact most have failed), I’ve learned valuable things from every single one. It is one of the greatest ways to learn new technologies, markets and skills.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      > Why not add the missing features you need to Pinephone? It just requires writing software. No, it does not "just" require writing software. - Potentially writing software and reverse engineering will allow me to message people on their required messaging platforms. Matrix is getting there. Maemo on Nokia N900 was excellent at this, but that was a different time; messaging has become more complicated since then. But, though I'm a fine software engineer, it is not feasible to write software to provide all the features I defined as essential in a modern phone: - No amount of writing software will allow me to access my bank account, which requires an Android or iOS app on an unjailbroken device to the best of my knowledge. No, a web browser does not work, it must be the app (crazy but true). Yes I could reverse engineer and crack the existing app to port it, but that would be foolish given the application. As I said, I would love to be proven wrong on this. Obviously I could switch banks, although that's not without its own difficulties and arguably if I have to switch banks, the new device doesn't meet my definition of a modern phone. The problem is not a software-writing problem. This is what I meant by Microsoft couldn't do it. Even though Windows phone was pretty good, it wasn't enough to be pretty good. It needed the essential apps that only 3rd parties could write, and not enough 3rd parties decided to write them. That was not in Microsofts locus of control, just as it isn't in mine. Eventually things may change, if Pinephone and its relatives become more popular or if fashions change. But not at the moment. At the moment, if I got one I would need to carry two devices. (I had two Nokia N900s btw, I'm no stranger to open source phones.)

swiley 6y ago

Nope, because of apple’s anticompetitive behavior I have to keep an iPhone around to talk to my family.