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I don't think you quite grasp what I meant by balancing act. This is an issue which the 2 biggest companies in tech have been fighting for 15 years (and Microso

I don't think you quite grasp what I meant by balancing act. This is an issue which the 2 biggest companies in tech have been fighting for 15 years (and Microsoft fought and failed to solve prior to that). This is arguably one of the biggest problems in tech and as devices get smaller and more personal, it's only going to get trickier. Your watch battery isn't going to last all day when you are running a crypto currency miner which is disguised as a media player.

BoorishBears 6y ago
Oh please. A non-user modifiable app killer isn't the fine line separating us from media app currency miners. How are Google's devices keeping OS guarantees while delivering some of the best in class battery life figured on Android Also, imagine seriously implying it's ok they blanket-kill user installed media players because there's a chance they might be currency mining? https://www.cnet.com/news/vlc-for-android-blacklists-huawei-phones-over-background-app-policy/ https://www.cnet.com/news/vlc-for-android-blacklists-huawei-... > The decision came in response to the Chinese phone maker's decision to cut off all background apps except its own, which stops VLC's audio playback, VideoLAN said in a tweet. Here's a real, not made up, not founded in a slippery slope from allowing music to allowing crypto mining, example of what these manufacturers are doing to users and devs alike. - It's not about battery life, it's about flexing their power to seem like they're doing something, while ensuring their bundled apps are the best option for a wide range of tasks In fact, you can look at the manufacturer list and come to that conclusion yourself. The manufacturers at the top of the list of breaking optimizers are mostly selling devices heavily subsidized by bundled services. Even Samsung is more aggressive on cheaper devices that target BRIC markets because they need revenue from bundled services. - Google is the only exception to the rule... until you realize their devices are just following the guarantees Android makes. And they still manage to have some of the best battery life on the market. That's because it's not even as simple as just blindly killing background apps. When you kill these background apps, users get in the habit of opening the apps back up manually to not miss updates. Repeatedly waking the radio is more battery consuming than if the OS just keeps it's promises and smartly wakes these apps. It's not like they get infinite processing time anyways, having this stuff be managed intelligently instead of just taking a sledgehammer to the concept of background processing is better for everyone involved but a manufacturer that wants their music app to be the only functional one...
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I have absolutely no idea what any of this has to do with my original point or my reply. Android OEMs have bad battery life because they install their own services and layers of nonsense over the top of Android. That doesn't change the fundamental issue here.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    You understand your comment is talking about the balancing act OEMs are supposedly putting on to save battery life? You understand me replying to you and talking about how they're not balancing anything but personal gain and optics is relevant to that? Or you don't understand that?
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      > This reads like a comment written by someone not aware of the depth of the problem. > Oh please. > Or you don't understand that? What I understand is that your posts have wandered between being dismissive, condescending, and argumentative. I've ignored that to this point, but since you've been insisted on being consistently so in 3 messages straight, I'm calling you on it. If you have a point other than being argumentative, it's not well made.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        You're complaining that my replies have nothing to do with the original point... then typing up a screed about my tone? Especially after starting your initial reply to me with >I have absolutely no idea what any of this has to do with my original point or my reply. Do you know what dismissive means? - If I come across as dismissive it's because you really don't seem to know what you're talking about, and if anything this attempt to deflect from the fact just cements that. Me telling you that your comment comes across as being written by someone not aware of the depth of the problem is exactly what it sounds like, you said things that strongly implied you were not aware of the deeper background to this post. If you choose to take it as a personal slight, be my guest. - Likewise if you're going to play the "music players can be crypto miners" card I'm going to be dismissive of that too, it's a lazy attempt to distract from the problem. Of course apps can be bad actors. Jumping to the most fear-mongery example possible is just that... fear mongering. For every app mining cryptocurrency, there's 10 more that are just poorly behaved in respect to battery life. Trying to act like OEM's attempts to lock down background apps should be dictated by the former rather than the latter is something I'll gladly dismiss. It's nonsense.

BoorishBears 6y ago

Oh please. A non-user modifiable app killer isn't the fine line separating us from media app currency miners. How are Google's devices keeping OS guarantees while delivering some of the best in class battery life figured on Android Also, imagine seriously implying it's ok they blanket-kill user installed media players because there's a chance they might be currency mining? https://www.cnet.com/news/vlc-for-android-blacklists-huawei-phones-over-background-app-policy/ https://www.cnet.com/news/vlc-for-android-blacklists-huawei-... > The decision came in response to the Chinese phone maker's decision to cut off all background apps except its own, which stops VLC's audio playback, VideoLAN said in a tweet. Here's a real, not made up, not founded in a slippery slope from allowing music to allowing crypto mining, example of what these manufacturers are doing to users and devs alike. - It's not about battery life, it's about flexing their power to seem like they're doing something, while ensuring their bundled apps are the best option for a wide range of tasks In fact, you can look at the manufacturer list and come to that conclusion yourself. The manufacturers at the top of the list of breaking optimizers are mostly selling devices heavily subsidized by bundled services. Even Samsung is more aggressive on cheaper devices that target BRIC markets because they need revenue from bundled services. - Google is the only exception to the rule... until you realize their devices are just following the guarantees Android makes. And they still manage to have some of the best battery life on the market. That's because it's not even as simple as just blindly killing background apps. When you kill these background apps, users get in the habit of opening the apps back up manually to not miss updates. Repeatedly waking the radio is more battery consuming than if the OS just keeps it's promises and smartly wakes these apps. It's not like they get infinite processing time anyways, having this stuff be managed intelligently instead of just taking a sledgehammer to the concept of background processing is better for everyone involved but a manufacturer that wants their music app to be the only functional one...

ogre_codes 6y ago
I have absolutely no idea what any of this has to do with my original point or my reply. Android OEMs have bad battery life because they install their own services and layers of nonsense over the top of Android. That doesn't change the fundamental issue here.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  You understand your comment is talking about the balancing act OEMs are supposedly putting on to save battery life? You understand me replying to you and talking about how they're not balancing anything but personal gain and optics is relevant to that? Or you don't understand that?
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > This reads like a comment written by someone not aware of the depth of the problem. > Oh please. > Or you don't understand that? What I understand is that your posts have wandered between being dismissive, condescending, and argumentative. I've ignored that to this point, but since you've been insisted on being consistently so in 3 messages straight, I'm calling you on it. If you have a point other than being argumentative, it's not well made.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      You're complaining that my replies have nothing to do with the original point... then typing up a screed about my tone? Especially after starting your initial reply to me with >I have absolutely no idea what any of this has to do with my original point or my reply. Do you know what dismissive means? - If I come across as dismissive it's because you really don't seem to know what you're talking about, and if anything this attempt to deflect from the fact just cements that. Me telling you that your comment comes across as being written by someone not aware of the depth of the problem is exactly what it sounds like, you said things that strongly implied you were not aware of the deeper background to this post. If you choose to take it as a personal slight, be my guest. - Likewise if you're going to play the "music players can be crypto miners" card I'm going to be dismissive of that too, it's a lazy attempt to distract from the problem. Of course apps can be bad actors. Jumping to the most fear-mongery example possible is just that... fear mongering. For every app mining cryptocurrency, there's 10 more that are just poorly behaved in respect to battery life. Trying to act like OEM's attempts to lock down background apps should be dictated by the former rather than the latter is something I'll gladly dismiss. It's nonsense.