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> Apple is even worse. There is a singular service, there’s, and using it costs $100/year. You say this like it's some egregious burden. Compared to the cost o

> Apple is even worse. There is a singular service, there’s, and using it costs $100/year. You say this like it's some egregious burden. Compared to the cost of building an app and shipping it $100/ year is a fraction of a drop in the bucket. It's less than 1 developer hour. If you are capable of building an app with push service, the cost is trivial. If you aren't capable, it's irrelevant.

banachtarski 6y ago
$100 is actually a really big deal in developing countries and lower-income areas. How many of us started working on software to experiment with for free growing up? Arbitrary cost barriers like this are honestly an impediment to learning, and in my opinion, even harmful to Apple in this case. Why wouldn't they want more people to learn iOS programming and Swift programming.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  The cost to learn to program on Apple's platforms is the cost of an iPad or Mac. The $99/ year is only required if you want to deploy an app to the App Store or use Apple's cloud services.
  - admax88q 6y ago
    Older versions of those can be picked up second hand for cheaper, or sometimes free if you repair somebody else's discarded device. Theres no market of second hand developer licenses.
  - dm33tri 6y ago
    You can use a mac from school or work and iPhones/iPads are as low as $300-$400. But paying $100 just for trying to publish an app is not worth it for many people. Android and Windows stores have lower and regionally adjusted prices.
  - creativeCak3 6y ago
    I will get downvoted for saying this, but I don't care: STOP defending Apple. The amount of egregious things Apple has done over the years is amazing. Not only do they charge developers for publishing apps EVERY year, but they also make up arbitrary rules in the name of "Privacy" or "Better user experience". Oh Please. You want to give people Privacy? Use open protocols for your shitty iCloud so that people KNOW just how much data you are are giving your Siri-shit voice assistant. Want better user Experience? Let me transfer music and ebooks to MY iPhone without having to use your joke of software called iTunes. And trust me, I used to be a big fan of theirs. But after they started glueing everything to their "computers", I had a wake-up call. The macbook used to be a great product, and then they started glueing everything to it and shoving the iCloud into it. Slowly, they killed their own product. So please, stop defending them. They are doing really shitty things that will just become stains in computing history.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      I'm not "defending Apple" here, I'm pointing out simple economics. A typical app costs upwards of $50,000 in developer time to build. Even if you are building your own app, we're talking about a person with valuable skills investing months of their personal time. This idea that for a typical developer $99 is a huge burden is just not an issue. This is true if you love Apple or hate them deep in your soul for a million burning reasons.
      - creativeCak3 6y ago
        That's fair. I see your point.
      - sofixa 6y ago
        And not everyone lives in the US. How much do you think it costs in USD for an app developer in a developing country to create an app, and how much is that $99/year as a percent of yearly income?
      - banachtarski 6y ago
        The ability to just develop and deploy experiments to the wild was one of the greatest propellants of my career when I was younger though. If I started my career in the current era, there is no chance I would have been able to afford to develop in the Apple ecosystem (not just yearly subscription, which is crazy to me, but also the cost of the hardware as you point out).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
beisner 6y ago
This is true enough in the US, but is prohibitively expensive in a ton of markets worldwide (maybe half the world population). Then again, the requirement to have a Mac to develop iOS apps is even more financially onerous...
- kevindong 6y ago
  The $100/year barrier may be tough to overcome in large portions of the world, but those portions of the world are not where iPhones are popular.
  - hal9000-tng 6y ago
    People shouldn't be allowed to develop on devices they can't afford?
swiley 6y ago
It is egregious because most FOSS maintainers aren’t going to pay it. I’m not going to pay it for things I develop in my free time either. Why the hell do I have to pay $100 a year to use a computer I own? Why are you defending this!?!

banachtarski 6y ago

$100 is actually a really big deal in developing countries and lower-income areas. How many of us started working on software to experiment with for free growing up? Arbitrary cost barriers like this are honestly an impediment to learning, and in my opinion, even harmful to Apple in this case. Why wouldn't they want more people to learn iOS programming and Swift programming.

ogre_codes 6y ago
The cost to learn to program on Apple's platforms is the cost of an iPad or Mac. The $99/ year is only required if you want to deploy an app to the App Store or use Apple's cloud services.
- admax88q 6y ago
  Older versions of those can be picked up second hand for cheaper, or sometimes free if you repair somebody else's discarded device. Theres no market of second hand developer licenses.
- dm33tri 6y ago
  You can use a mac from school or work and iPhones/iPads are as low as $300-$400. But paying $100 just for trying to publish an app is not worth it for many people. Android and Windows stores have lower and regionally adjusted prices.
- creativeCak3 6y ago
  I will get downvoted for saying this, but I don't care: STOP defending Apple. The amount of egregious things Apple has done over the years is amazing. Not only do they charge developers for publishing apps EVERY year, but they also make up arbitrary rules in the name of "Privacy" or "Better user experience". Oh Please. You want to give people Privacy? Use open protocols for your shitty iCloud so that people KNOW just how much data you are are giving your Siri-shit voice assistant. Want better user Experience? Let me transfer music and ebooks to MY iPhone without having to use your joke of software called iTunes. And trust me, I used to be a big fan of theirs. But after they started glueing everything to their "computers", I had a wake-up call. The macbook used to be a great product, and then they started glueing everything to it and shoving the iCloud into it. Slowly, they killed their own product. So please, stop defending them. They are doing really shitty things that will just become stains in computing history.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    I'm not "defending Apple" here, I'm pointing out simple economics. A typical app costs upwards of $50,000 in developer time to build. Even if you are building your own app, we're talking about a person with valuable skills investing months of their personal time. This idea that for a typical developer $99 is a huge burden is just not an issue. This is true if you love Apple or hate them deep in your soul for a million burning reasons.
    - creativeCak3 6y ago
      That's fair. I see your point.
    - sofixa 6y ago
      And not everyone lives in the US. How much do you think it costs in USD for an app developer in a developing country to create an app, and how much is that $99/year as a percent of yearly income?
    - banachtarski 6y ago
      The ability to just develop and deploy experiments to the wild was one of the greatest propellants of my career when I was younger though. If I started my career in the current era, there is no chance I would have been able to afford to develop in the Apple ecosystem (not just yearly subscription, which is crazy to me, but also the cost of the hardware as you point out).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

beisner 6y ago

This is true enough in the US, but is prohibitively expensive in a ton of markets worldwide (maybe half the world population). Then again, the requirement to have a Mac to develop iOS apps is even more financially onerous...

kevindong 6y ago
The $100/year barrier may be tough to overcome in large portions of the world, but those portions of the world are not where iPhones are popular.
- hal9000-tng 6y ago
  People shouldn't be allowed to develop on devices they can't afford?

swiley 6y ago

It is egregious because most FOSS maintainers aren’t going to pay it. I’m not going to pay it for things I develop in my free time either. Why the hell do I have to pay $100 a year to use a computer I own? Why are you defending this!?!