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My hypothesis is that the US is a victim of its own success: several generations of living in a prosperous, stable society reduces the need for the average citi

by hliyan 6y ago

My hypothesis is that the US is a victim of its own success: several generations of living in a prosperous, stable society reduces the need for the average citizen to develop survival skills. Here I use the term 'survival skills' very generally: it includes specialized education and expertise in some area, financial planning and risk management skills, inter-personnel and conflict resolution skills, emotional resilience etc. I suspect that the education problem may be on the demand side (due to the above reason) rather than on the supply side (even though the prohibitive higher education costs do play a big role).

vlovich123 6y ago
I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you churn out.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Public education spending as a percentage of GDP is at an all time high. I dont think people appreciate the cost of public schooling in the US. According to data provided by the federal government, public schools in the US spend on average $15,500 per child per year. That is an enormous amount of money and it is only climbing ever higher year after year.
  - asdff 6y ago
    It depends on the area. It's been particularly divested in California, which falls short of the average per child spend despite having the highest GDP. In CA, per child spend has fallen 15% from 1970-1997. https://www.kqed.org/news/11701044/how-proposition-13-transformed-neighborhood-public-schools-throughout-california https://www.kqed.org/news/11701044/how-proposition-13-transf...
    - em500 6y ago
      > "In CA, per child spend has fallen 15% from 1970-1997." Where did you get that? From the graph in your article it looks like it grew by almost 20%
  - WealthVsSurvive 6y ago
    You're going to have to break the $15,500 apart to answer the question: what's wrong with that. How much is "administrative"?
  - vlovich123 6y ago
    Averages are skewed by extremes which feeds into my point that the wealthy neighborhoods spend far more on public schools than in poorer communities. Even with all that, it also means we’re spending nearly $500000 on a classroom in which a teacher makes 40-50k (let’s round that up to 60-80k for the payroll taxes). Where is the rest of the money going? We could have a hard cap on 20 kids and for teacher pay to be more competitive for less money than we spend today.
- hliyan 6y ago
  Counterpoint: I grew up in a third world country where class room sizes were between 30-40. Facilities and teacher qualifications were spartan at best. Good textbooks cost an appreciable fraction of an average person's monthly income.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    For this to be a counterpoint you'd need to demonstrate how this lead to good eductional outcomes, or at least provide an anecdote.
    - hliyan 6y ago
      Until recently (I joined a startup), I was VP Engineering for a Fortune 100 corporation, leading the development of a system that ran an appreciable fraction of the company's revenue (over $50B) through it. Before that I developed trading systems software for two of the world's largest stock exchanges. Largely self-congratulatory and anecdotal, yes, but that seems to be what you wanted to validate the counterpoint.
- Aunche 6y ago
  I think it's insane not to consider that we're getting too comfortable as a society. According to Nielsen, the average adult spends over 11 hours a day consuming media. I imagine a lot of it is passive, but that nevertheless must have an impact on our productivity. https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2018/time-flies-us-adults-now-spend-nearly-half-a-day-interacting-with-media/ https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2018/time-fli...

by hliyan 6y ago

vlovich123 6y ago

I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you churn out.

missedthecue 6y ago
Public education spending as a percentage of GDP is at an all time high. I dont think people appreciate the cost of public schooling in the US. According to data provided by the federal government, public schools in the US spend on average $15,500 per child per year. That is an enormous amount of money and it is only climbing ever higher year after year.
- asdff 6y ago
  It depends on the area. It's been particularly divested in California, which falls short of the average per child spend despite having the highest GDP. In CA, per child spend has fallen 15% from 1970-1997. https://www.kqed.org/news/11701044/how-proposition-13-transformed-neighborhood-public-schools-throughout-california https://www.kqed.org/news/11701044/how-proposition-13-transf...
  - em500 6y ago
    > "In CA, per child spend has fallen 15% from 1970-1997." Where did you get that? From the graph in your article it looks like it grew by almost 20%
- WealthVsSurvive 6y ago
  You're going to have to break the $15,500 apart to answer the question: what's wrong with that. How much is "administrative"?
- vlovich123 6y ago
  Averages are skewed by extremes which feeds into my point that the wealthy neighborhoods spend far more on public schools than in poorer communities. Even with all that, it also means we’re spending nearly $500000 on a classroom in which a teacher makes 40-50k (let’s round that up to 60-80k for the payroll taxes). Where is the rest of the money going? We could have a hard cap on 20 kids and for teacher pay to be more competitive for less money than we spend today.
hliyan 6y ago
Counterpoint: I grew up in a third world country where class room sizes were between 30-40. Facilities and teacher qualifications were spartan at best. Good textbooks cost an appreciable fraction of an average person's monthly income.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  For this to be a counterpoint you'd need to demonstrate how this lead to good eductional outcomes, or at least provide an anecdote.
  - hliyan 6y ago
    Until recently (I joined a startup), I was VP Engineering for a Fortune 100 corporation, leading the development of a system that ran an appreciable fraction of the company's revenue (over $50B) through it. Before that I developed trading systems software for two of the world's largest stock exchanges. Largely self-congratulatory and anecdotal, yes, but that seems to be what you wanted to validate the counterpoint.
Aunche 6y ago
I think it's insane not to consider that we're getting too comfortable as a society. According to Nielsen, the average adult spends over 11 hours a day consuming media. I imagine a lot of it is passive, but that nevertheless must have an impact on our productivity. https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2018/time-flies-us-adults-now-spend-nearly-half-a-day-interacting-with-media/ https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2018/time-fli...