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I saw a "Just Have A Think" YouTube channel video recently describing the 1MV HVDC line being built across China. It is part of Belt&Road infrastructure projec

I saw a "Just Have A Think" YouTube channel video recently describing the 1MV HVDC line being built across China. It is part of Belt&Road infrastructure project and will allow them to distribute excess loads to different time zones without skin effect losses of an AC line. This is a part of their COVID stimulus injection. When American $1.2k per citizen landed in accounts, I remember checking local Walmarts in the weeks that followed and I noticed all the TVs were gone. With such a system, China could even launch excess solar as far as Germany in their afternoon peak sun angle when German duck curve morning peak begins?

makomk 6y ago
As far as I can tell, the reason other countries haven't built anything like this is that it doesn't make sense from a grid engineering perspective, and the main benefit of building such a high-voltage high-capacity line is the propaganda one of being able to claim it's world leading. The big problem is that the grid needs to have enough redundancy to stay up if a single generator or transmission line fails, so the big high-capacity single transmission lines that China builds can't actually be used at close to their nominal capacity. It probably wouldn't even work as a propaganda stunt in countries with a free press; if the Trump administration built something like this, I just know the NYT headlines would be about how it was a useless Trumpian folly and showed the perils of his disdain for experts.
ponker 6y ago
And those TVs created a lot of Chinese jobs.
- Taek 6y ago
  You are downvoted probably because it seemed snarky but I thought it was an interesting point and appreciated it.
  - ponker 6y ago
    Please don't fret about my downvotes... most people are morons, so a comment's votes are not an indicator of anything substantive about it.
- jbay808 6y ago
  I was basically going to make the same point -- putting money in people's pockets is letting them make decisions about their own best interest, which in this case, appears to be rewarding Chinese investments in flatscreen TV factories.
echelon 6y ago
> I remember checking local Walmarts in the weeks that followed and I noticed all the TVs were gone. A lot of folks became retail investors for the first time right about then, too. Hertz wiped a few of them out, and SoftBank profited off the rest. Even a "trickle up" bailout gets taken advantage of by the big fish.
nkingsy 6y ago
A HVDC belt buckle around the earth paired with oodles of PV seems like a rare legit silver bullet. Hopefully China is wildly successful with this, spurring further investment.
jeffbee 6y ago
Really, you "checked local walmarts" to inventory all their televisions? That's the biggest bunch of horse shit I've ever read, even on HN. According to the government, only 7% of recipients used any part of their stimulus money to buy household items. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/receipt-and-use-of-stimulus-payments-in-the-time-of-the-covid-19-pandemic.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/receipt-and-use-of-sti...
- Taek 6y ago
  I think it remains a valid question though. What if we had handled the unemployment by creating infrastructure jobs instead of universal handouts? That has the added benefit of increasing the productive output of our economy.
  - untog 6y ago
    It isn’t really all that valid in terms of the $1.2k payout. That was at the height of the pandemic, you absolutely didn’t want to have people out working in infrastructure jobs at that point, you wanted them to isolate at home. But the broader question, could/should the US use this moment of mass unemployment to create infrastructure jobs: IMO, yes. But it’ll never happen because someone will say the word “socialism” and it’ll immediately become politically unimaginable.
  - ultramundane8 6y ago
    Could you elaborate on a plan (of course a really rough sketch) for "creating infrastructure jobs" during a global pandemic? I agree with the premise, but I would like to know how to accomplish something like this. Especially if you have domain knowledge, it could be enlightening to the HN readership. There are a lot of accomplished people who read these forums, and it would be cool to see a seed get planted.
    - conductr 6y ago
      Need an unemployment check? Help build a bridge, road, dam, etc. In my mind it’s super simple. Money for labor. Problem is, most Americans would revolt if you asked them to break a sweat.
WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
> I remember checking local Walmarts in the weeks that followed and I noticed all the TVs were gone I mean, if I had an extra 1.2k (btw, I didn't qualify), I might spend it on something fancy.
pm90 6y ago
Consumerism is the foundation of the American economy and due to the way the economy is currently structured it helps the world when Americans consumer more. Let’s not make value judgements about consumer spending. However, I do agree that the US should be spending more on infrastructure. A LOT more. Arguably, spending less on infrastructure is what’s caused the loss of a lot of blue collar jobs...
refurb 6y ago
It seems like you just made up the state about TV. Seems like for most Americans, the money went to debt payment and savings, which seems quite rationale in times of uncertainty.[1] For those in the lower income ranges, more of it went to consumers goods, but that would be expected at those income levels. [1]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/02/how-did-americans-use-their-coronavirus-stimulus-cheques https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/02/how-did-...
0xfaded 6y ago
Investment in public assets that take up the slack in the labour market and /remain/ public assets is the alternative to UBI I want to see. An asset like a solar plant or a HVDC line produces revenue for the public. And there's no reason an independent publicly owned corporation can't function well. I'll admit guaranteeing that the revenue isn't wasted by a government that becomes addicted to its revenue streams is another problem. (Denmark has a bridge with €30 plus tolls that were promised to become toll free once the loans were paid off. Never happened. Norway seems to do a better job with its oil fund.) To bring China back as the reference, important government posts are extremely prestigious and held by very capable people. Outside of propping up their stock market, it is hard to fault their public investment stategy. However, I disapprove of the surveillance state and the human rights abuses.

makomk 6y ago

As far as I can tell, the reason other countries haven't built anything like this is that it doesn't make sense from a grid engineering perspective, and the main benefit of building such a high-voltage high-capacity line is the propaganda one of being able to claim it's world leading. The big problem is that the grid needs to have enough redundancy to stay up if a single generator or transmission line fails, so the big high-capacity single transmission lines that China builds can't actually be used at close to their nominal capacity. It probably wouldn't even work as a propaganda stunt in countries with a free press; if the Trump administration built something like this, I just know the NYT headlines would be about how it was a useless Trumpian folly and showed the perils of his disdain for experts.

ponker 6y ago

And those TVs created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Taek 6y ago
You are downvoted probably because it seemed snarky but I thought it was an interesting point and appreciated it.
- ponker 6y ago
  Please don't fret about my downvotes... most people are morons, so a comment's votes are not an indicator of anything substantive about it.
jbay808 6y ago
I was basically going to make the same point -- putting money in people's pockets is letting them make decisions about their own best interest, which in this case, appears to be rewarding Chinese investments in flatscreen TV factories.

echelon 6y ago

> I remember checking local Walmarts in the weeks that followed and I noticed all the TVs were gone. A lot of folks became retail investors for the first time right about then, too. Hertz wiped a few of them out, and SoftBank profited off the rest. Even a "trickle up" bailout gets taken advantage of by the big fish.

nkingsy 6y ago

A HVDC belt buckle around the earth paired with oodles of PV seems like a rare legit silver bullet. Hopefully China is wildly successful with this, spurring further investment.

jeffbee 6y ago

Really, you "checked local walmarts" to inventory all their televisions? That's the biggest bunch of horse shit I've ever read, even on HN. According to the government, only 7% of recipients used any part of their stimulus money to buy household items. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/receipt-and-use-of-stimulus-payments-in-the-time-of-the-covid-19-pandemic.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/receipt-and-use-of-sti...

Taek 6y ago
I think it remains a valid question though. What if we had handled the unemployment by creating infrastructure jobs instead of universal handouts? That has the added benefit of increasing the productive output of our economy.
- untog 6y ago
  It isn’t really all that valid in terms of the $1.2k payout. That was at the height of the pandemic, you absolutely didn’t want to have people out working in infrastructure jobs at that point, you wanted them to isolate at home. But the broader question, could/should the US use this moment of mass unemployment to create infrastructure jobs: IMO, yes. But it’ll never happen because someone will say the word “socialism” and it’ll immediately become politically unimaginable.
- ultramundane8 6y ago
  Could you elaborate on a plan (of course a really rough sketch) for "creating infrastructure jobs" during a global pandemic? I agree with the premise, but I would like to know how to accomplish something like this. Especially if you have domain knowledge, it could be enlightening to the HN readership. There are a lot of accomplished people who read these forums, and it would be cool to see a seed get planted.
  - conductr 6y ago
    Need an unemployment check? Help build a bridge, road, dam, etc. In my mind it’s super simple. Money for labor. Problem is, most Americans would revolt if you asked them to break a sweat.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago

> I remember checking local Walmarts in the weeks that followed and I noticed all the TVs were gone I mean, if I had an extra 1.2k (btw, I didn't qualify), I might spend it on something fancy.

pm90 6y ago

Consumerism is the foundation of the American economy and due to the way the economy is currently structured it helps the world when Americans consumer more. Let’s not make value judgements about consumer spending. However, I do agree that the US should be spending more on infrastructure. A LOT more. Arguably, spending less on infrastructure is what’s caused the loss of a lot of blue collar jobs...

refurb 6y ago

It seems like you just made up the state about TV. Seems like for most Americans, the money went to debt payment and savings, which seems quite rationale in times of uncertainty.[1] For those in the lower income ranges, more of it went to consumers goods, but that would be expected at those income levels. [1]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/02/how-did-americans-use-their-coronavirus-stimulus-cheques https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/02/how-did-...

0xfaded 6y ago

Investment in public assets that take up the slack in the labour market and /remain/ public assets is the alternative to UBI I want to see. An asset like a solar plant or a HVDC line produces revenue for the public. And there's no reason an independent publicly owned corporation can't function well. I'll admit guaranteeing that the revenue isn't wasted by a government that becomes addicted to its revenue streams is another problem. (Denmark has a bridge with €30 plus tolls that were promised to become toll free once the loans were paid off. Never happened. Norway seems to do a better job with its oil fund.) To bring China back as the reference, important government posts are extremely prestigious and held by very capable people. Outside of propping up their stock market, it is hard to fault their public investment stategy. However, I disapprove of the surveillance state and the human rights abuses.