9 ms·
Reading things about Qanon I can't help but think how easy it is to fool large swaths of people by telling them exactly what they want to hear. Especially if th
by spiderfarmer 6y ago
Reading things about Qanon I can't help but think how easy it is to fool large swaths of people by telling them exactly what they want to hear. Especially if they, like all Qanon supporters, believe that "disinformation is necessary", something that enables them to believe in you when you're demonstrably lying.
Decennia of sagas, myths, legends, religions and cults have proven that people just want to believe in something that explains the things they themselves can't explain. Things that enable them to form groups that give them a sense of safety. A sense of belonging. A way to feel superior to members of other groups.
No matter how bizarre a believe system looks to the general public, the scale of the internet enables you to reach a large group of people anyway. There will always be an audience that actively searches for things to believe in. You don't have to do anything but to sow some seeds, and they'll actively search for the "facts" that will strengthen their believe.
The internet also enables you to monetise your scam easily with Patreons and advertising.
What have we done.
- mdanger007 6y agowe tell ourselves stories to live. politicians use stories too. but is the story of, say the american dream (51% of 18-34 year olds still live with their parents) less dangerous for politicians to tell than that of hollywood child sex rings? I dunno.
- spiderfarmer 6y agoA story that directly or indirectly harms people is always bad.
- Florin_Andrei 6y agoIt's a one-two punch. One one hand, mesianic movements tend to re-occur throughout history whenever populations are under prolonged stress for various reasons. Then you get the same thing all over again - some powerful figure shall rise, and is indeed rising as we speak, to deliver us all from our bondage. On the other hand, yes, the internet and social media have made it a lot easier for bullshit to spread out and take over the minds of millions. I don't think that combination was ever tried before. What have we done, indeed.
- spiderfarmer 6y agoSeeing the downvotes and other comments in this thread, even part of the otherwise intelligent HN crowd wants to belong to this particular movement.
- Florin_Andrei 6y agoEngineering and the tech community are notorious hotbeds of radical, irrational politics and beliefs. Simply possessing a very sharp but very narrow analytical thinking is not enough to give one a clear picture of reality.
- prox 6y agoAnalytical thinking par excellence can be very dispassionate and lack empathy. All disinformation has in common it never talks about coming together as a whole. It is never truly compassionate or empathic to the plight of others. To build bridges. Instead othering is a way or tool to direct hate and increase polarization. Thats the true manipulation.
- Nasrudith 6y agoThat is assuming the wrong causation - downvotes are often because of disagreeing with the details even if they agree that QAnon are a bunch of fruit loops. It would be like saying people are pro-pedophile because they don't support requiring all primary school teachers to be spayed or neutered. No they are against it because it is a horrifyingly bad solution.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- toomanyrichies 6y ago“People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them throw rocks at their enemies.” -Blair Warren, "The One Sentence Persuasion Course: 27 Words to Make the World Do Your Bidding"
- spiderfarmer 6y agoThe thinking behind this sentence is the cause of the disease, but also the cure. If everyone would teach their children that this is how some people will try to fool you, the world could be a better place.
- acephal 6y agoBut they do, many working class communities communicate distrust of middle class white collars
- hosteur 6y ago> But they do, many working class communities communicate distrust of middle class white collars Most white collars are working class. Working class are people who work for a wage or salary.
- benjohnson 6y agoMy gut reaction: Vetted and official news also can get us to believe lies: * Iraq has a stockpile of WMD. * Japanese-American citizens should be rounded up. * You don't need to wear a mask, so don't go buying them up. * Collage is a wise investment. * You should fear $those_people because they will kill you. * Some civil rights are outdated and you don't need them anymore.
- spiderfarmer 6y agoTelling people to not believe the things they're seeing and hearing is probably one of the common denominators of all cults and religions.
- pm90 6y agoThere is a difference between lies and conspiracy theories though. Lies have a lifespan after which they are exposed. Conspiracy theories are like lie factories, more lies will be manufactured to rationalize previous lies ad infinity.
- tootie 6y agoPretty much everything on that list was the right-wing propaganda of it's time. You won't much if any factual reporting supporting any of it.
- prox 6y agoDon’t know why you are being downvoted, most of the points are indeed typically right wing afaik.
- oneplane 6y agoSeems like good journalistic news would write: * Pentagon said Iraq has a stockpile of WMD * White house reports Japanese-American citizens will be rounded up. * You don't need to wear a mask, so don't go buying them up, surgeon general said in press release. * Collage is a wise investment, according to College administrators. * You should fear $those_people because they will kill you, Senate discussed last night. * Congress argues: Some civil rights are outdated and you don't need them anymore. It's not news if it's opinion. It's news if it's a writeup of things that happen.
- rsynnott 6y agoThis isn't a new thing; for instance see early 20th century antisemitic conspiracy theories (Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Naziism, etc). And for a somewhat more benign example, the Satanic ritual abuse conspiracy theories in the 80s and 90s. Some people just seem inclined to believe in vaguely occult lunacy, especially if it involves kids (as all three of these examples do).
- spiderfarmer 6y agoAccording to Yuval Noah Harari's "Sapiens", it's as old as humanity itself.
- pm90 6y agoThe printing press was arguably the foundation of Protestant faith, and arguably all of the other Christian sects. New technology has always been used to form and popularize these fantasies. Faith has been a foundation of American society, I believe what has happened here is that the same mechanism that allows a person to believe in the fantasies of religion can be co opted to make them believe in other miracles as well. I would not be surprised if Qanon becomes an actual faith in America, with the Donald as their Jesus. The high level of education in American society, while lack of any political power for any Religion combined with snide ridicule by educated, smart people has made more traditional faiths seem less potent. Thus we have this new “faith”.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> The printing press was arguably the foundation of Protestant faith, and arguably all of the other Christian sects. Well, clearly not the (Roman or Old) Catholic, or (Eastern or Oriental) Orthodox, or Nestorian branches of Christianity, all of which long-predate the printing press (the split between the Nestorians and what became both Roman Catholic and Orthodox was more than 1000 years before Gutenberg's printing press; the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox schism was ~400 years before the printing press), which covers basically all of non-Protestant Christianity, except for a few groups that are, if not Protestant, descendants of Protestantism (e.g., SDA, JW, LDS, etc.)
- rsynnott 6y agoNot to argue your general point, but there have been a number of Roman Catholic breakaway sects since then.
- meroes 6y agoI do think the same wants religion fills are why conspiracies are so successful. Hell maybe they are the same thing for all intents and purposes.
- rsynnott 6y ago> I would not be surprised if Qanon becomes an actual faith in America, with the Donald as their Jesus. I mean, I would argue that that has already happened; it's a fringe religion/cult. Again, though, that's not new. Fringe religions show up all the time, and have since before the dawn of recorded history. Even if you just restrict it to Christian traditions, look how many millennial cults there've been!
- peeebee 6y agowow and you are being downvoted. wonder how many qanon amd far right fans lurk around here, and how many are among the “elite”. says a lot about this swamp.
- spiderfarmer 6y agoWhen your faith is challenged, downvoting the criticism is a lot easier than analysing your own behaviour and thought process.
- tmaly 6y agoHow is TV any different? Look at the X-Files, yes it was fiction, but I am sure there are many people that believe there are aliens.