4 ms·

> We need to be building massive amounts of housing in city centers to let as many people live in them that would like to. All else being equal, Americans will

> We need to be building massive amounts of housing in city centers to let as many people live in them that would like to. All else being equal, Americans will choose to live in a detached house on a 1/2 acre lot with an SUV or pickup in the driveway.

CamperBob2 6y ago
The people advocating dense inner-city housing for everyone don't plan to make it a choice. They know better than the rest of us, you see.
epistasis 6y ago
This is simply untrue. Some people will, but this sort of “everybody who doesn’t want what I want is lying to themselves” is elitism that destroys people’s chances to live th way they prefer. The higher cost of living in cities is pretty strong evidence that city living is under supplied compared to suburban living.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  You can argue back and forth whether people in flyover country hate the idea of living in dense housing or not. But if you peruse city and county planning documents you find that most places it's completely illegal to build greenfield projects with urban density. Instead of being able to build 25-35 units an acre you're allowed 3-4. And no mixed use allowed. Seems to me the answer is people don't get a choice a most places. Would people outside of old dense cities want to live in a walkable mixed use development? We have no idea because those have been banned since before WWII.
- pbourke 6y ago
  How is it untrue? The proportion of Americans living in urban counties (31%) has not changed in 20 years. The proportion living in suburban counties has increased slightly (53% to 55%) [1] The proportion of new vehicle sales that are SUVs or pickups has been steadily climbing for over 30 years [2] > The higher cost of living in cities is pretty strong evidence that city living is under supplied compared to suburban living. Is that true for all cities or just a few large ones? I don’t see how you can conclude that. The narrower conclusion is that demand for city housing exceeds supply in a few key markets. > this sort of “everybody who doesn’t want what I want is lying to themselves” is elitism that destroys people’s chances to live th way they prefer. You have apparently without irony proved my point. My broader point is that rather than force people to do things that they apparently don’t want to do (move to dense housing, ditch or downsize their vehicles) we should seek ways to invest in the efficiency of our existing housing stock, and provide incentives to improve the efficiency of new vehicles. A carbon tax also looks like a promising approach. [1] https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e... [2] https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-trends-report#Highlight3 https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-...
asdff 6y ago
I'd argue the 90k or so living on the street in a tent or their car in LA will be happy with any room of their own with a lock and some real privacy. That sort of housing is popular for the people who can afford an SUV to go in the driveway, but there are people who can't even afford any sort of housing right now.

CamperBob2 6y ago

The people advocating dense inner-city housing for everyone don't plan to make it a choice. They know better than the rest of us, you see.

epistasis 6y ago

This is simply untrue. Some people will, but this sort of “everybody who doesn’t want what I want is lying to themselves” is elitism that destroys people’s chances to live th way they prefer. The higher cost of living in cities is pretty strong evidence that city living is under supplied compared to suburban living.

Gibbon1 6y ago
You can argue back and forth whether people in flyover country hate the idea of living in dense housing or not. But if you peruse city and county planning documents you find that most places it's completely illegal to build greenfield projects with urban density. Instead of being able to build 25-35 units an acre you're allowed 3-4. And no mixed use allowed. Seems to me the answer is people don't get a choice a most places. Would people outside of old dense cities want to live in a walkable mixed use development? We have no idea because those have been banned since before WWII.
pbourke 6y ago
How is it untrue? The proportion of Americans living in urban counties (31%) has not changed in 20 years. The proportion living in suburban counties has increased slightly (53% to 55%) [1] The proportion of new vehicle sales that are SUVs or pickups has been steadily climbing for over 30 years [2] > The higher cost of living in cities is pretty strong evidence that city living is under supplied compared to suburban living. Is that true for all cities or just a few large ones? I don’t see how you can conclude that. The narrower conclusion is that demand for city housing exceeds supply in a few key markets. > this sort of “everybody who doesn’t want what I want is lying to themselves” is elitism that destroys people’s chances to live th way they prefer. You have apparently without irony proved my point. My broader point is that rather than force people to do things that they apparently don’t want to do (move to dense housing, ditch or downsize their vehicles) we should seek ways to invest in the efficiency of our existing housing stock, and provide incentives to improve the efficiency of new vehicles. A carbon tax also looks like a promising approach. [1] https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e... [2] https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-trends-report#Highlight3 https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-...

asdff 6y ago

I'd argue the 90k or so living on the street in a tent or their car in LA will be happy with any room of their own with a lock and some real privacy. That sort of housing is popular for the people who can afford an SUV to go in the driveway, but there are people who can't even afford any sort of housing right now.