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By that logic, everyone must also understand how CDMA/GSM works or we can't trust that that 911 call will go through correctly. The reality is that americans h

by lhorie 6y ago

By that logic, everyone must also understand how CDMA/GSM works or we can't trust that that 911 call will go through correctly. The reality is that americans have collectively decided that e-voting cannot possibly work, perhaps due to some irrational fear that their bipartisan side will be cheated out of a rightful win in some sinister movie plot. Never mind that e-voting has been around and working just fine in other parts of the world.

pdonis 6y ago
> By that logic, everyone must also understand how CDMA/GSM works or we can't trust that that 911 call will go through correctly. No, they don't, because they can call 911 and have actual police and EMTs show up, so they know the system works even if they can't understand the technical details. There is no similar way to check a computerized voting process.
- lhorie 6y ago
  Of course there is. If the green party gets elected all of a sudden, everyone will smell a rat. On a more serious and technical level, auditable voting systems have both been developed already, and deployed/used. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.
  - pessimizer 6y ago
    That you cite their existence without giving an actual example is a strong indication that if they do exist, you aren't aware of them either.
    - lhorie 6y ago
      ...or maybe I foolishly assumed in good faith that people are smart enough to google for things that challenge their preconceptions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_...
  - pdonis 6y ago
    > If the green party gets elected all of a sudden, everyone will smell a rat. Of course, but that's not the most likely failure mode.
    - lhorie 6y ago
      Obviously the example is extreme, but it still applies in other scenarios since polls often predict outcomes. Take Brazil for example. Presidential elections are about as high stakes as they come, they have been electronic for decades and election results pretty much always align with polls. There are no known cases of tampering despite the high amount of chronic political corruption. Failure modes in the system are much more mundane: buying votes, manipulation of lower classes (so called "voto de cabresto"), smear campaigns and the like.

by lhorie 6y ago

pdonis 6y ago

> By that logic, everyone must also understand how CDMA/GSM works or we can't trust that that 911 call will go through correctly. No, they don't, because they can call 911 and have actual police and EMTs show up, so they know the system works even if they can't understand the technical details. There is no similar way to check a computerized voting process.

lhorie 6y ago
Of course there is. If the green party gets elected all of a sudden, everyone will smell a rat. On a more serious and technical level, auditable voting systems have both been developed already, and deployed/used. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.
- pessimizer 6y ago
  That you cite their existence without giving an actual example is a strong indication that if they do exist, you aren't aware of them either.
  - lhorie 6y ago
    ...or maybe I foolishly assumed in good faith that people are smart enough to google for things that challenge their preconceptions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_...
- pdonis 6y ago
  > If the green party gets elected all of a sudden, everyone will smell a rat. Of course, but that's not the most likely failure mode.
  - lhorie 6y ago
    Obviously the example is extreme, but it still applies in other scenarios since polls often predict outcomes. Take Brazil for example. Presidential elections are about as high stakes as they come, they have been electronic for decades and election results pretty much always align with polls. There are no known cases of tampering despite the high amount of chronic political corruption. Failure modes in the system are much more mundane: buying votes, manipulation of lower classes (so called "voto de cabresto"), smear campaigns and the like.