> So what is your position anyway, at least vis-à-vis Westerners and China? Why do I need to have a position? For all the complaints about foreign interference

> So what is your position anyway, at least vis-à-vis Westerners and China? Why do I need to have a position? For all the complaints about foreign interference, we sure do love to meddle in chinese affairs. Also, it's not "westerners" and china. It's our greedy little elites and greedy little chinese elites and all the propagandists that the greedy elites hired to peddle nonsense. Look at this thread. It's mostly propagandists ( including the author ) and a few ramblings from the ill-informed ( thanks to the propagandists ). Like almost every anti-china propaganda on traditional and social media. > Huh? The founding fathers thought unchecked direct democracy was bad, but that's not what we're talking about. So they thought democracy was bad? Isn't that what I wrote? > They developed a system in response that which is frequently also called democracy. They developed a system where a handful of wealthy rich white landowners got to vote. Not exactly democracy by any stretch of the imagination. They developed a system for themselves and called it democracy. > You're dealing in straw men: neither of your interlocutors are actually claiming "their system is perfect." Nope. I may have exaggerated for effect but the argument still holds. I clearly showed "china bad" and "democracy good" is nonsense. Democracy is and can be bad. Try it for yourself. Since 1776, "democracies" have been the source of the greatest and most numerous evils. Go down the list - genocides, slavery, wars, etc. But we don't really give a rats ass about democracy do we. So what are we really after? Why the sudden focus on "democracy" in china but nothing about democracy in say saudi arabia? Oh that's right, it's just state propaganda. Carry on.