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The true illusion is that there be true barons: they are us, in our multiple guises of investors and pensioners and account-holders and wage slaves. Some tower

by qubex 6y ago

The true illusion is that there be true barons: they are us, in our multiple guises of investors and pensioners and account-holders and wage slaves. Some tower over others (the Gates and Bezos of the world) but in truth they’re just an outsized outlier. As long as we engage in the artefice that we are beholden to evildoers who lord it over us, we will never be free.

michaelt 6y ago
Yeah, let's distribute the blame into a billion tiny pieces so nobody has to feel bad. I mean sure, BP dumped 210 million gallons of crude oil into the gulf of mexico, but it's the people using plastic straws who are the real problem here.
- ThomPete 6y ago
  It IS distributed into a billion tiny pieces. Do you know if your computer is using oil from BP? Do you know if your car is running on gasoline from BP? The manufactorers of plastic straw aren't responsible for the disposal of them that's a job of the individual societies, which all consist of taxpayers who are voting their politicians into power. The disconnect is the idea that BP is evil while we are innocent bystanders. BP and the other oil companies are a net benefit to society and 80% of what you consider modern living is based on some sort of oil based derivative.
  - cultus 6y ago
    These companies have significant influence over government. This has lead to public transit being gutted and most people being forced to own a car. Car companies invented the concept of "jay walking" to banish people from public streets. People in our current oligarchical capitalist society have little choice but to engage with it. It's not a moral decision that most people can make. Individuals and corporations are compelled to ignore negative externalities. We could have public transit and cycling, use reusable glass containers, have more locally based economies, and also have better, more fulfilling lives than now. But we don't. And we are bringing cataclysmic damage to our planet and ourselves in the process.
    - ThomPete 6y ago
      There is not a single piece of scientific base for any cataclysmic damage, on the contrary fossil fuel have made the world safer for those who use it.
cmehdy 6y ago
You use the words "illusion" and "being free", so I feel comfortable putting the issue into terms where those words also have similar connotations: I commit a crime if I buy heroin instead of acknowledging my issues and getting therapy, and that's absolutely a problem I need to curb. I'm not even really happier with it, but I don't find enough support, better education about myself and the world, to get better. I'd be happier without, but I don't know that yet and I'm strictly convinced I can't live without it! But if I'm the guy who moves a literal ton of heroin across the border, and I have 5-10 orders of magnitude more money than the other schmuck, AND I use a mere fraction of my benefits to lobby all around and get PR firms to make other people turn away from addressing their issues and more towards my product.. well, how to put it.. I'm a tiny bit responsible, you know? Thinking that this is just an illusion is magic thinking: sure, everyone could magically address their problems today and the crime rates would drop! Suicides would drop! How wonderful. But how about we look at the actual world and offer insights/education/support to that first person, while making sure we keep the other one heavily in check or prevent harmful activity much more actively? That's better education for the former and stricter regulations of all sorts for the latter. We all have a role to play in this. This article simply talks about the pushers who rightfully deserve to be exposed, that's all. Let's please stop entertaining false dichotomies. It's not all on the voter to magically be wiser, and it's not all on the big company to stop trying to do what it's built to do (drive profits). It's on both.
- qubex 6y ago
  > Let’s stop entertaining false dichotomies Agreed. That’s the spirit of what I meant. I sincerely thank you for synthesising it thusly.
paulryanrogers 6y ago
These 'outliers' have an outsized effect on government which is more representative of our ideal choices. You can't stop systemic problems like these by blaming the little guys living in food deserts making minimum wage. They have few choices to significantly change things when greener options are out of reach. Yet lobbies bought and paid for at the direction of these barons do.

by qubex 6y ago

michaelt 6y ago

Yeah, let's distribute the blame into a billion tiny pieces so nobody has to feel bad. I mean sure, BP dumped 210 million gallons of crude oil into the gulf of mexico, but it's the people using plastic straws who are the real problem here.

ThomPete 6y ago
It IS distributed into a billion tiny pieces. Do you know if your computer is using oil from BP? Do you know if your car is running on gasoline from BP? The manufactorers of plastic straw aren't responsible for the disposal of them that's a job of the individual societies, which all consist of taxpayers who are voting their politicians into power. The disconnect is the idea that BP is evil while we are innocent bystanders. BP and the other oil companies are a net benefit to society and 80% of what you consider modern living is based on some sort of oil based derivative.
- cultus 6y ago
  These companies have significant influence over government. This has lead to public transit being gutted and most people being forced to own a car. Car companies invented the concept of "jay walking" to banish people from public streets. People in our current oligarchical capitalist society have little choice but to engage with it. It's not a moral decision that most people can make. Individuals and corporations are compelled to ignore negative externalities. We could have public transit and cycling, use reusable glass containers, have more locally based economies, and also have better, more fulfilling lives than now. But we don't. And we are bringing cataclysmic damage to our planet and ourselves in the process.
  - ThomPete 6y ago
    There is not a single piece of scientific base for any cataclysmic damage, on the contrary fossil fuel have made the world safer for those who use it.

cmehdy 6y ago

You use the words "illusion" and "being free", so I feel comfortable putting the issue into terms where those words also have similar connotations: I commit a crime if I buy heroin instead of acknowledging my issues and getting therapy, and that's absolutely a problem I need to curb. I'm not even really happier with it, but I don't find enough support, better education about myself and the world, to get better. I'd be happier without, but I don't know that yet and I'm strictly convinced I can't live without it! But if I'm the guy who moves a literal ton of heroin across the border, and I have 5-10 orders of magnitude more money than the other schmuck, AND I use a mere fraction of my benefits to lobby all around and get PR firms to make other people turn away from addressing their issues and more towards my product.. well, how to put it.. I'm a tiny bit responsible, you know? Thinking that this is just an illusion is magic thinking: sure, everyone could magically address their problems today and the crime rates would drop! Suicides would drop! How wonderful. But how about we look at the actual world and offer insights/education/support to that first person, while making sure we keep the other one heavily in check or prevent harmful activity much more actively? That's better education for the former and stricter regulations of all sorts for the latter. We all have a role to play in this. This article simply talks about the pushers who rightfully deserve to be exposed, that's all. Let's please stop entertaining false dichotomies. It's not all on the voter to magically be wiser, and it's not all on the big company to stop trying to do what it's built to do (drive profits). It's on both.

qubex 6y ago
> Let’s stop entertaining false dichotomies Agreed. That’s the spirit of what I meant. I sincerely thank you for synthesising it thusly.

paulryanrogers 6y ago

These 'outliers' have an outsized effect on government which is more representative of our ideal choices. You can't stop systemic problems like these by blaming the little guys living in food deserts making minimum wage. They have few choices to significantly change things when greener options are out of reach. Yet lobbies bought and paid for at the direction of these barons do.