5 ms·

Same here. However, I am thinking about the "loud pipes save lifes" nonsense. Loud pipes should simply be banned, and thats it. The argument always seems to

Same here. However, I am thinking about the "loud pipes save lifes" nonsense. Loud pipes should simply be banned, and thats it. The argument always seems to be the same, for kids as well as for grown up bikers: "But they're just kids, they just wanna play!"

olivermarks 6y ago
Disagree. Banning things is rarely effective, can't be enforced and tends to make people install loud exhaust systems. I've seen far more confederate flags in California recently probably because of all the cancel culture efforts to ban them as an example. Also loud pipes actually do save biker lives, and I think as EV's start to break out of their niche market the manufacturers should have to build in some sort of pedestrian/cyclist/other motor vehicle awareness audio. Electric racing vehicles have to sound like wooping ice cream vans to compete so they don't kill marshals on track...link to VW hill climb EV(the perfect use of electric power - short run, altitude change acceleration) https://youtu.be/kAJaGAMWjHM https://youtu.be/kAJaGAMWjHM
- virgilp 6y ago
  "loud pipe save lives" has always struck me as such an egotistical, anti-social argument. Do you know what would save much more biker lives than loud pipes do? Limiting speed for 2-wheeled vehicles to 30mph, by construction. Somehow, I've seen exactly zero bikers that advocate that.
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    That's because it's a idiotic idea. A huge problem for bikers is getting out of the way of barely there car, suv and truck drivers looking at phones and drinking hot beverages. Accelerating away from these dangerous idiots is a major problem for cyclists too, who don't have the acceleration abilities of a m/c to get out of the way.. I used to always worry about red BMW drivers as being the most aggressive and worse drivers but these days a red prius is always a major red flag warning based on my experiences with them. Maybe attention wandering sensors and alerts should be put in silent hybrids and ev's to get the driver to be more considerate of those around them
    - xnyan 6y ago
      This is an impassioned argument that I hear frequently from those with loud engines. It’s not supported by data: http://www.maids-study.eu/pdf/MAIDS2.pdf http://www.maids-study.eu/pdf/MAIDS2.pdf. Because of the Doppler effect, the volume of your engine is not playing a significant role in detection by a driver in the vast majority of serious accidents due the fact that most of them are frontal. On a personal level, the world you’re describing sounds like hell to me. There’s already way too much noise pollution. I ride motorcycles, I agree car drivers are inattentive to non-cars. Slowing down is the answer for noise and safety, save speed for track days.
      - olivermarks 6y ago
        Slowing down is the answer for noise and safety, save speed for track days < totally agree with that, and we also need more race tracks again. People who race and do track days often drive like old grannies because they understand the dangers (especially from head on traffic) far better than the average street driver. I think it inevitable that hybrids and EVs have some sort of noise projection at manufacture by law soon. Audio senses are 360 degree, vision isn't.
        xnyan 6y ago
        this is probably bad but I find driving extremely boring and I don’t hear or pay attention to any noise outside the car when I drive. I can remember only two drives in the last 10 years when I was not distracting myself with an audiobook or podcast. If an ambulance has their siren on I will notice it, thats it.
    - virgilp 6y ago
      Look at the numbers: 857 bicycle deaths[1] vs 4985 bikers[2]. You can look at the unit sales to see how those translate to percentages - but I hope it's easy to agree that there are more cyclists, in fact. Your theory that motorcycle max speed saves lives is simply unsupported by any data; if you can't see it, it's just cognitive dissonance - you've made up your mind that you like loud speedy bikes and are just looking for justifications. (don't get me wrong - I fully understand that a slow motorcycle is no fun. But it _is_ a dangerous vehicle - own that, don't use loud noises and other means that inconvenience people around in order to feel slightly safer, that's just inconsiderate. ) [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety

olivermarks 6y ago

Disagree. Banning things is rarely effective, can't be enforced and tends to make people install loud exhaust systems. I've seen far more confederate flags in California recently probably because of all the cancel culture efforts to ban them as an example. Also loud pipes actually do save biker lives, and I think as EV's start to break out of their niche market the manufacturers should have to build in some sort of pedestrian/cyclist/other motor vehicle awareness audio. Electric racing vehicles have to sound like wooping ice cream vans to compete so they don't kill marshals on track...link to VW hill climb EV(the perfect use of electric power - short run, altitude change acceleration) https://youtu.be/kAJaGAMWjHM https://youtu.be/kAJaGAMWjHM

virgilp 6y ago
"loud pipe save lives" has always struck me as such an egotistical, anti-social argument. Do you know what would save much more biker lives than loud pipes do? Limiting speed for 2-wheeled vehicles to 30mph, by construction. Somehow, I've seen exactly zero bikers that advocate that.
- olivermarks 6y ago
  That's because it's a idiotic idea. A huge problem for bikers is getting out of the way of barely there car, suv and truck drivers looking at phones and drinking hot beverages. Accelerating away from these dangerous idiots is a major problem for cyclists too, who don't have the acceleration abilities of a m/c to get out of the way.. I used to always worry about red BMW drivers as being the most aggressive and worse drivers but these days a red prius is always a major red flag warning based on my experiences with them. Maybe attention wandering sensors and alerts should be put in silent hybrids and ev's to get the driver to be more considerate of those around them
  - xnyan 6y ago
    This is an impassioned argument that I hear frequently from those with loud engines. It’s not supported by data: http://www.maids-study.eu/pdf/MAIDS2.pdf http://www.maids-study.eu/pdf/MAIDS2.pdf. Because of the Doppler effect, the volume of your engine is not playing a significant role in detection by a driver in the vast majority of serious accidents due the fact that most of them are frontal. On a personal level, the world you’re describing sounds like hell to me. There’s already way too much noise pollution. I ride motorcycles, I agree car drivers are inattentive to non-cars. Slowing down is the answer for noise and safety, save speed for track days.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      Slowing down is the answer for noise and safety, save speed for track days < totally agree with that, and we also need more race tracks again. People who race and do track days often drive like old grannies because they understand the dangers (especially from head on traffic) far better than the average street driver. I think it inevitable that hybrids and EVs have some sort of noise projection at manufacture by law soon. Audio senses are 360 degree, vision isn't.
      - xnyan 6y ago
        this is probably bad but I find driving extremely boring and I don’t hear or pay attention to any noise outside the car when I drive. I can remember only two drives in the last 10 years when I was not distracting myself with an audiobook or podcast. If an ambulance has their siren on I will notice it, thats it.
  - virgilp 6y ago
    Look at the numbers: 857 bicycle deaths[1] vs 4985 bikers[2]. You can look at the unit sales to see how those translate to percentages - but I hope it's easy to agree that there are more cyclists, in fact. Your theory that motorcycle max speed saves lives is simply unsupported by any data; if you can't see it, it's just cognitive dissonance - you've made up your mind that you like loud speedy bikes and are just looking for justifications. (don't get me wrong - I fully understand that a slow motorcycle is no fun. But it _is_ a dangerous vehicle - own that, don't use loud noises and other means that inconvenience people around in order to feel slightly safer, that's just inconsiderate. ) [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety