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Swap China with USA and Tiktok with Google and see how insane it is. I hope China doesn't back down to US aggression. This is like a child throwing a tantrum. I

by Dahoon 6y ago

Swap China with USA and Tiktok with Google and see how insane it is. I hope China doesn't back down to US aggression. This is like a child throwing a tantrum. It needs to be put in its place by a grown-up.

hugh4life 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
- ipiz0618 6y ago
  The Chinese government and the people they control is really putting doublethink to use. Just look at the huge list of websites not accessible in China, and movies, and news, and books...the list goes on. When nations start doing the same to Chinese infiltration, it's suddenly unfair.
cultus 6y ago
I really don't understand the panic about Chinese surveillance with TikTok when we have Facebook, which is far worse in the depth of what they collect. This just erodes the confidence in American rule of law for no particular reason.
- bogwog 6y ago
  The difference is that China is an enemy of democracy. Whether you hate or love the US, I’m sure you’d rather live in a free world.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    John Adams and George Washington believed a two-party system was also an enemy of democracy. It's not really so black and white. Free vs. non-free. Both sides really do have mass surveillance, China's being a bit further along and a bit more omniscient. I don't think TikTok, a collection of six-second clips of teens messing around represents a real, material, meaningful threat to freedom and democracy. Even if they collected all the footage and ran it all through their national security apparatus. The signal to noise ratio on this content is incomprehensibly low. This is grandstanding and showmanship on the part of two strongmen leaders, one totalitarian overlord and one wannabe, and really, I don't think there's a clear right side and wrong side here.
    - dontcarethrow2 6y ago
      Or we could ve underestimating how much influence these social media apps exert especially on the younger crowd(where Tiktok currently reigns) and our IC is looking to limit this soft power from others. It's easier to control the 'world narrative' when you own the channels.
    - nogabebop23 6y ago
      >> I don't think TikTok, a collection of six-second clips of teens messing around represents a real, material, meaningful threat to freedom and democracy I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I do think a foreign power with direct and absolute editorial control over the #1 content delivery network of an entire generation of our population is cause for concern. I'm not discounting your skepticism that there is grandstanding involved, but from your comment I see a dramatic difference between a wanna-be totalitarian in a free democracy and an unequivocal one in a single party state. Let's not let perfect be the enemy of better; while domestic surveillance is unacceptable it is most definitely better than the current situation.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        That's fair.
    - ForHackernews 6y ago
      Please stop with this false equivalence nonsense. In 2020, the USA (for all its many faults) is not running concentration camps to imprison and "re-educate" millions of citizens for having the wrong religion or ethnicity. It's not trying to carry out a slow-motion genocide. I don't love the NSA, or Trump, or the US military-industrial complex, but parroting this "both sides" garbage just makes you sound like a useful idiot for the CCP. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-new-internment-camps-xinjiang-uighurs-muslims https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-new-inter...
      - arcticbull 6y ago
  - quantaum_dot 6y ago
    Sure, US is a free world where people are free to loot, burn down buildings, spread qanon conspiracies; and subvert other governments, make false baseless accusations against other countries because they refuse to be the puppets of the US.
- mistermann 6y ago
  The real concern is propaganda, surveillance is a safe and easy to understand cover story to sell to the public. I don't encounter too much political propaganda on TikTok (lots of BLM stuff though), but the potency of the platform is obvious, and the userbase is overwhelmingly young people who may be more impressionable, idealistic, etc. Just one example of propaganda: https://www.tiktok.com/@jperkinsauthor https://www.tiktok.com/@jperkinsauthor Of course, this exists on other sites as well, but bundling ideas/memes into 30 second bite-sized morsels with video seems like a fantastic design for quick propogation throughout a network of human minds.
darepublic 6y ago
USA would rather see Google China close than a forced sale
colejohnson66 6y ago
The problem is: it’s China. No matter your argument, it’s very easy to respond with “but China.” Simply put: “the US doesn’t commit genocide, therefore, we’re better.” It’s a ridiculous argument IMHO, but it’s one that I’ve heard (even here) many times.
- willis936 6y ago
  How is it ridiculous? Is taking action against a country actively committing genocide ridiculous?
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    It’s not. But saying we’re better than China when we do many bad things comes off as virtue signaling. Just because we don’t do what they do doesn’t mean we’re better if we do things that are similar or even worse than they do. Abducting protestors off the street in unmarked vans is very reminiscent of what’s happening in Hong Kong. Many people actively support the riots in Hong Kong, but demonize them when they happen here. The NSA spies on everyone, but we care more about when China does it. We have roughly a Social Credit system in the form of your Credit Report and algorithms that determine if you’ll jump bail.[0] Heck, we have a President who has suggested he won’t leave office if he loses in November and a very large chunk of the population supports it (I’ve seen some die-hard Republicans say he should run for a third term in 2024 if he wins 2020). The list goes on and on. Basically, we may be better than China in some ways, but to say we’re overall better is debatable. I would even go as far as saying it’s disingenuous. We can’t be better if we don’t recognize our own shortcomings. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24425797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24425797
    - willis936 6y ago
      You dismiss my pointing out of genocide with whataboutism[0]. Nothing the US does comes close to ethnic cleansing on the “bad guy” scale. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- 6y ago

by Dahoon 6y ago

hugh4life 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

ipiz0618 6y ago
The Chinese government and the people they control is really putting doublethink to use. Just look at the huge list of websites not accessible in China, and movies, and news, and books...the list goes on. When nations start doing the same to Chinese infiltration, it's suddenly unfair.

cultus 6y ago

I really don't understand the panic about Chinese surveillance with TikTok when we have Facebook, which is far worse in the depth of what they collect. This just erodes the confidence in American rule of law for no particular reason.

bogwog 6y ago
The difference is that China is an enemy of democracy. Whether you hate or love the US, I’m sure you’d rather live in a free world.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  John Adams and George Washington believed a two-party system was also an enemy of democracy. It's not really so black and white. Free vs. non-free. Both sides really do have mass surveillance, China's being a bit further along and a bit more omniscient. I don't think TikTok, a collection of six-second clips of teens messing around represents a real, material, meaningful threat to freedom and democracy. Even if they collected all the footage and ran it all through their national security apparatus. The signal to noise ratio on this content is incomprehensibly low. This is grandstanding and showmanship on the part of two strongmen leaders, one totalitarian overlord and one wannabe, and really, I don't think there's a clear right side and wrong side here.
  - dontcarethrow2 6y ago
    Or we could ve underestimating how much influence these social media apps exert especially on the younger crowd(where Tiktok currently reigns) and our IC is looking to limit this soft power from others. It's easier to control the 'world narrative' when you own the channels.
  - nogabebop23 6y ago
    >> I don't think TikTok, a collection of six-second clips of teens messing around represents a real, material, meaningful threat to freedom and democracy I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I do think a foreign power with direct and absolute editorial control over the #1 content delivery network of an entire generation of our population is cause for concern. I'm not discounting your skepticism that there is grandstanding involved, but from your comment I see a dramatic difference between a wanna-be totalitarian in a free democracy and an unequivocal one in a single party state. Let's not let perfect be the enemy of better; while domestic surveillance is unacceptable it is most definitely better than the current situation.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      That's fair.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Please stop with this false equivalence nonsense. In 2020, the USA (for all its many faults) is not running concentration camps to imprison and "re-educate" millions of citizens for having the wrong religion or ethnicity. It's not trying to carry out a slow-motion genocide. I don't love the NSA, or Trump, or the US military-industrial complex, but parroting this "both sides" garbage just makes you sound like a useful idiot for the CCP. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-new-internment-camps-xinjiang-uighurs-muslims https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-new-inter...
    - arcticbull 6y ago
- quantaum_dot 6y ago
  Sure, US is a free world where people are free to loot, burn down buildings, spread qanon conspiracies; and subvert other governments, make false baseless accusations against other countries because they refuse to be the puppets of the US.
mistermann 6y ago
The real concern is propaganda, surveillance is a safe and easy to understand cover story to sell to the public. I don't encounter too much political propaganda on TikTok (lots of BLM stuff though), but the potency of the platform is obvious, and the userbase is overwhelmingly young people who may be more impressionable, idealistic, etc. Just one example of propaganda: https://www.tiktok.com/@jperkinsauthor https://www.tiktok.com/@jperkinsauthor Of course, this exists on other sites as well, but bundling ideas/memes into 30 second bite-sized morsels with video seems like a fantastic design for quick propogation throughout a network of human minds.

darepublic 6y ago

USA would rather see Google China close than a forced sale

colejohnson66 6y ago

The problem is: it’s China. No matter your argument, it’s very easy to respond with “but China.” Simply put: “the US doesn’t commit genocide, therefore, we’re better.” It’s a ridiculous argument IMHO, but it’s one that I’ve heard (even here) many times.

willis936 6y ago
How is it ridiculous? Is taking action against a country actively committing genocide ridiculous?
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  It’s not. But saying we’re better than China when we do many bad things comes off as virtue signaling. Just because we don’t do what they do doesn’t mean we’re better if we do things that are similar or even worse than they do. Abducting protestors off the street in unmarked vans is very reminiscent of what’s happening in Hong Kong. Many people actively support the riots in Hong Kong, but demonize them when they happen here. The NSA spies on everyone, but we care more about when China does it. We have roughly a Social Credit system in the form of your Credit Report and algorithms that determine if you’ll jump bail.[0] Heck, we have a President who has suggested he won’t leave office if he loses in November and a very large chunk of the population supports it (I’ve seen some die-hard Republicans say he should run for a third term in 2024 if he wins 2020). The list goes on and on. Basically, we may be better than China in some ways, but to say we’re overall better is debatable. I would even go as far as saying it’s disingenuous. We can’t be better if we don’t recognize our own shortcomings. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24425797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24425797
  - willis936 6y ago
    You dismiss my pointing out of genocide with whataboutism[0]. Nothing the US does comes close to ethnic cleansing on the “bad guy” scale. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
6y ago