4 ms·

Is this cultural appropriation or would the Europeans have had to make copies of the carpets themselves to count?

paganel 6y ago
Maybe your comment has been written as a joke, but there are also Transylvanian rugs [1], which even though are not copies (but the originals themselves) the’ve “lived” their life long enough outside Anatolia in order to merit a new “name”. > The name Transylvanian rug is used as a term of convenience to denote a cultural heritage of 15th–17th century Islamic rugs, mainly of Ottoman origin, which have been preserved in Transylvanian Protestant (Hungarian and Saxon) churches.[1][2] The corpus of Transylvanian rugs constitutes one of the largest collections of Ottoman Anatolian rugs outside the Islamic world.[3] Strangely enough many of the people now living in Transylvania look at anything Turkish- or Anatolian-related with a clear air of superiority, presumably everything that matters comes from the West (if that’s from Germany that’s even better), is a very good thing that the Transylvanian Saxons from the 1500s or the 1600s were more culturally open-minded. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_rugs https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_rugs
wakawaka1 6y ago
>"cultural appropriation" you are joking, right?
pjc50 6y ago
"Cultural appropriation" is a hugely overused term that was originally developed to cover the combination of use of native American symbols with massive racism and systematic oppression towards the actual native Americans themselves. To apply it there need to be those two elements. It would require sneering at the Persians for being unsophisticated while also making copies of the carpets. Orientalism has lots of problems of its own but it is not comparable to colonialism.
c3534l 6y ago
I don't know why people think this question is so absurd. Orientalism is a classic case of cultural appropriation. Religious iconography was taken and used without understanding it, to the point of hanging prayer rugs upside down and writing faux Arabic script. Whether you think this was a pressing issue for the medieval period is another thing entirely. My guess is the Islamic world would have happily continued selling us rugs if we weren't busy calling crusades against.
- Veen 6y ago
  > My guess is the Islamic world would have happily continued selling us rugs if we weren't busy calling crusades against. How do you think there came to be an "Islamic world" in the first place? Anatolia was Christian centuries before Muhammed was born. Persia was Zoroastrian centuries before that. The early Muslims were colonizing and building empires long before Europeans started crusading. You could just as plausibly castigate Islamic architects for "culturally appropriating" the Byzantine Christian design of the Hagia Sophia Church in Constantinople for mosques. But it's a limited, misleading, and uninteresting way to think about history.
  - c3534l 6y ago
    How did you twist my aside that it wasn't important all things considered into me castigating Europeans? I was pointing out how trivial cultural appropriation is as a problem while acknowledging its existence.
Bayart 6y ago
How do you think we kick-started the porcelain and silk industries in Europe ?

Maybe your comment has been written as a joke, but there are also Transylvanian rugs [1], which even though are not copies (but the originals themselves) the’ve “lived” their life long enough outside Anatolia in order to merit a new “name”. > The name Transylvanian rug is used as a term of convenience to denote a cultural heritage of 15th–17th century Islamic rugs, mainly of Ottoman origin, which have been preserved in Transylvanian Protestant (Hungarian and Saxon) churches.[1][2] The corpus of Transylvanian rugs constitutes one of the largest collections of Ottoman Anatolian rugs outside the Islamic world.[3] Strangely enough many of the people now living in Transylvania look at anything Turkish- or Anatolian-related with a clear air of superiority, presumably everything that matters comes from the West (if that’s from Germany that’s even better), is a very good thing that the Transylvanian Saxons from the 1500s or the 1600s were more culturally open-minded. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_rugs https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_rugs

wakawaka1 6y ago

>"cultural appropriation" you are joking, right?

pjc50 6y ago

"Cultural appropriation" is a hugely overused term that was originally developed to cover the combination of use of native American symbols with massive racism and systematic oppression towards the actual native Americans themselves. To apply it there need to be those two elements. It would require sneering at the Persians for being unsophisticated while also making copies of the carpets. Orientalism has lots of problems of its own but it is not comparable to colonialism.

c3534l 6y ago

I don't know why people think this question is so absurd. Orientalism is a classic case of cultural appropriation. Religious iconography was taken and used without understanding it, to the point of hanging prayer rugs upside down and writing faux Arabic script. Whether you think this was a pressing issue for the medieval period is another thing entirely. My guess is the Islamic world would have happily continued selling us rugs if we weren't busy calling crusades against.

Veen 6y ago
> My guess is the Islamic world would have happily continued selling us rugs if we weren't busy calling crusades against. How do you think there came to be an "Islamic world" in the first place? Anatolia was Christian centuries before Muhammed was born. Persia was Zoroastrian centuries before that. The early Muslims were colonizing and building empires long before Europeans started crusading. You could just as plausibly castigate Islamic architects for "culturally appropriating" the Byzantine Christian design of the Hagia Sophia Church in Constantinople for mosques. But it's a limited, misleading, and uninteresting way to think about history.
- c3534l 6y ago
  How did you twist my aside that it wasn't important all things considered into me castigating Europeans? I was pointing out how trivial cultural appropriation is as a problem while acknowledging its existence.

Bayart 6y ago

How do you think we kick-started the porcelain and silk industries in Europe ?