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Nothing about bitcoin, ethereum or any other blockchain enabled financial object lives outside of regulation. The regulation just has not have caught up yet. Th

by atty 6y ago

Nothing about bitcoin, ethereum or any other blockchain enabled financial object lives outside of regulation. The regulation just has not have caught up yet. The implementation of the laws and regulations will change because of the nature of the technology, but in no future where cryptocurrencies have any importance, are they magically left unregulated. Effectively what you’re advocating for is criminality, which is ironically the only major industry that’s thriving in crypto right now, as far as I can tell.

seibelj 6y ago
Laws are only enforced if we all believe they are just. The government can say whatever it wants, but throughout history citizens have ignored / disagreed with laws and they have changed as a result. I don’t even have to mention current protests for a recent example. If you don’t understand this technology then it’s easy to be naïve. Check out https://tornado.cash/ https://tornado.cash/ It is an unstoppable contract to facilitate monetary anonymity! Good luck
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  So which is it? Are the laws unenforceable in the face of this 13-year-old technology, or are they enforceable but unpopular (and if so, why deal with all this cryptocurrency stuff instead of just lobbying hard to change unpopular anti-money-laundering laws directly?) There was a reason Poloniex pulled out of the US last year, right? What was that reason? And remember- if your paycheck depends on this technology- or, particularly, if you hold lots of cryptocurrency- it's easy to be willfully naive about its potential.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    People have used crypto to sidestep laws for 13 years. The laws don’t matter.
    - XMPPwocky 6y ago
      If not for legal reasons, why is Poloniex no longer operating in the United States?
      - seibelj 6y ago
        Poloniex has moved to the Seychelles, which is the “Land of the Free”. If you don’t desire the protections offered by the Seychelles, please use Coinbase. What’s wonderful about the crypto industry is you can voluntarily choose the exchange you like!
        XMPPwocky 6y ago
        Sorry for being unclear- I meant why (i.e. what was the reason for the decision, not where did they move to) did Poloniex move from the United States to the Seychelles, and stop allowing users from the United States?
        shlant 6y ago
        due to US laws. Same reason Bitmex is moving to requiring KYC and Binance created a US only site - to avoid getting sued/shut down.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Laws are only enforced if we all believe they are just That's not even approximately true. Laws are only enforced if there are people that think that it's worth enforcing them and who have the means (which usually i closed government sanction) to do so, which often happens when far less than all of the governments constituents think the laws involved are just.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    As I stated in the original comment, cryptocurrency violates innumerable laws every time a block is produced, but governments have not shut them down. The laws are already not being enforced!
jules-jules 6y ago
Might want to refresh your assumptions: Just from last week https://coinnounce.com/swift-report-reveals-criminals-prefer-cash-over-crypto-for-money-laundering/ https://coinnounce.com/swift-report-reveals-criminals-prefer... “ A new report by the SWIFT says criminals prefer using fiat currencies over cryptocurrencies for money laundering and other criminal activities”.
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  The amount of criminal usage of cryptocurrencies is definitely often overstated, but I don't think that article says anything that actually contradicts the statement (which, again, I think is false!) that crime is the only sector thriving in crypto right now. The article says "criminals use more cash than cryptocurrency for money laundering"- this doesn't tell you how much cryptocurrency use is related to crime, though. They say up to 2 trillion could be getting laundered annually- at that point, Bitcoin's entire 2019 transaction volume could be money laundering, and it would be no less true that "criminals prefer fiat over cryptocurrency for money laundering." Obviously, this is absurd- the point is the article doesn't tell you what you actually want to know (how prevalent is money laundering in cryptocurrencies compared to legitimate transactions in same?)

by atty 6y ago

seibelj 6y ago

Laws are only enforced if we all believe they are just. The government can say whatever it wants, but throughout history citizens have ignored / disagreed with laws and they have changed as a result. I don’t even have to mention current protests for a recent example. If you don’t understand this technology then it’s easy to be naïve. Check out https://tornado.cash/ https://tornado.cash/ It is an unstoppable contract to facilitate monetary anonymity! Good luck

XMPPwocky 6y ago
So which is it? Are the laws unenforceable in the face of this 13-year-old technology, or are they enforceable but unpopular (and if so, why deal with all this cryptocurrency stuff instead of just lobbying hard to change unpopular anti-money-laundering laws directly?) There was a reason Poloniex pulled out of the US last year, right? What was that reason? And remember- if your paycheck depends on this technology- or, particularly, if you hold lots of cryptocurrency- it's easy to be willfully naive about its potential.
- seibelj 6y ago
  People have used crypto to sidestep laws for 13 years. The laws don’t matter.
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    If not for legal reasons, why is Poloniex no longer operating in the United States?
    - seibelj 6y ago
      Poloniex has moved to the Seychelles, which is the “Land of the Free”. If you don’t desire the protections offered by the Seychelles, please use Coinbase. What’s wonderful about the crypto industry is you can voluntarily choose the exchange you like!
      - XMPPwocky 6y ago
        Sorry for being unclear- I meant why (i.e. what was the reason for the decision, not where did they move to) did Poloniex move from the United States to the Seychelles, and stop allowing users from the United States?
        shlant 6y ago
        due to US laws. Same reason Bitmex is moving to requiring KYC and Binance created a US only site - to avoid getting sued/shut down.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Laws are only enforced if we all believe they are just That's not even approximately true. Laws are only enforced if there are people that think that it's worth enforcing them and who have the means (which usually i closed government sanction) to do so, which often happens when far less than all of the governments constituents think the laws involved are just.
- seibelj 6y ago
  As I stated in the original comment, cryptocurrency violates innumerable laws every time a block is produced, but governments have not shut them down. The laws are already not being enforced!

jules-jules 6y ago

Might want to refresh your assumptions: Just from last week https://coinnounce.com/swift-report-reveals-criminals-prefer-cash-over-crypto-for-money-laundering/ https://coinnounce.com/swift-report-reveals-criminals-prefer... “ A new report by the SWIFT says criminals prefer using fiat currencies over cryptocurrencies for money laundering and other criminal activities”.

XMPPwocky 6y ago
The amount of criminal usage of cryptocurrencies is definitely often overstated, but I don't think that article says anything that actually contradicts the statement (which, again, I think is false!) that crime is the only sector thriving in crypto right now. The article says "criminals use more cash than cryptocurrency for money laundering"- this doesn't tell you how much cryptocurrency use is related to crime, though. They say up to 2 trillion could be getting laundered annually- at that point, Bitcoin's entire 2019 transaction volume could be money laundering, and it would be no less true that "criminals prefer fiat over cryptocurrency for money laundering." Obviously, this is absurd- the point is the article doesn't tell you what you actually want to know (how prevalent is money laundering in cryptocurrencies compared to legitimate transactions in same?)