4 ms·
OK I said I wasn't going to lurk, but I have a problem. Blacklisting isn't cancel culture, I don't understand how it equates at all. I think, we're talking pa
by bargl 6y ago
OK I said I wasn't going to lurk, but I have a problem.
Blacklisting isn't cancel culture, I don't understand how it equates at all. I think, we're talking past each-other a bit here just because cancel culture can be hard to define. It's defined by some as boycotting like "cancel Netflix". It'd defined by others as canceling an individual like "this person tweeted about XYZ when they were 17 fire them." It can also be, "Celebrity XYZ said something I disagree with cancel them (Kapernick comes to mind)." One is targeted against the less privileged and elevates those without a voice or a platform to celebrity. The other is just a re-branding of boycotting. The third targets celebrities who making a social stand.
I'd define the cancel culture I'm concerned about as the form that is against an individual who was not previously famous, doesn't want to be famous and is thrust into the spotlight without the ability to control the narrative or provide context. They got caught on a bad day and just want to be left alone. This is a form of "witch hunt" that thrives on the mob mentality of twitter and other social networks out there that feed on our baser human instincts.
I also think that canceling celebrities because you disagree with them is dumb, but that's privilege vs less privilege and I don't see it as big of an issue.
Cancel culture that's really just boycotting is not something I'm concerned about.
I'll re-iterate, the past had some awful and yet socially acceptable shit going on. I don't think there is a similar phenomenon where the mob went after other individuals in such a global manner. The level of cancel culture that I'm talking about wasn't a global phenomenon before. It wasn't more local, mobs stayed in towns and cities. But they also carried pitch forks and hurt people. So before we had, potential death in your city/town, and now we have humiliation and loss of job but globally. I dislike them both and if I had to pick I think the later is the obvious choice.
OK really trying to close this down now, but this conversation is more fun than what I'd be doing othewise!
- joshuamorton 6y agoCan you give examples of what you consider cancellation and not? For examples is Scott Alexander, a well known blogger, having is full name (which is only sort of a secret) posted "cancellation" in your eyes? I think the issue may be that you're defining cancel culture in a way that's very different than what most people in general, and in this thread, do. That's not wholly your fault, but it does mean that the conversation probably won't be fruitful. I ask this mostly because I'm having a hard time coming up with a lot of examples of what you mean by "cancel culture" outside of the 3-4 well trodden examples of "cancellation gone wrong" (Justice Sacco, and the recent examples from the Atlantic Article "Stop Firing the Innocent").
- mgamache 6y agoOf course we only hear about famous (or semi-famous) people Off the top of my head... Stephen Hsu of MSU Greg Patton of USC Bret Weinstein (a few years ago.. this backfired). Jonathan Friedland (fired for using the N-Word in a meeting discussing sensitive words in PR), Peter Boghossian (still is employed, but was harassed IRL and investigated under ethics charges after the grievance studies papers). But, it's the famous people that are the most important for signalling that if you publicly voice an unpopular opinion you will have to endure retribution. It's the chilling effect that important as that will silence multiples for each public witch burning. For most of human history being ostracized from your social group was a death sentence. We are wired to respond to negative group pressure. We learn the rules pretty quickly. Avoid certain topics, post anodyne content, virtue signal to my in group.
- joshuamorton 6y agoThis is exactly the problem, of the people you listed, only perhaps freidland and patton meet GPs definition of cancel culture. The others got backlash for doing incendiary, public things, which doesn't meet the definition given by GP. Hsu, Weinstein, and Boghossian definitely do not meet GPs definition. After a second look, Freidland also does not. He was fired by netflix solely due to their preferences and without any sort of external hubbub at all. (I'm also not clear how Friedland's firing meets any definition of cancel culture, so I'd like to hear your definition as well).
- mgamache 6y agoGP was looking for people 'who was not previously famous'. Any college professor has a somewhat public job, but it's not the defining feature of the job (for most professors).
- joshuamorton 6y agoYou picked out one aspect of four. A college professor who gets recognition for controversial research they do does have the opportunity to contextualize that research. Someone who spends weeks or months devoted to doing something wasn't "caught on a bad day". An executive fired by their own company isn't "thrust into the spotlight". If your personal definition of cancel culture is "a non famous person faces consequences for an act", that's fine, but it's also a uselessly loose definition.