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> If you wanted to replace all the meat and dairy with equivalent protein substitutes you’d be looking at huge amounts of land for growing soybeans, peanuts, tr

> If you wanted to replace all the meat and dairy with equivalent protein substitutes you’d be looking at huge amounts of land for growing soybeans, peanuts, tree nuts In addition to the other replies, I'd like to point out that insect farming is an often overlooked solution. But of course it's just not sexy enough for most westerners. According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations: > Edible insects contain high quality protein, vitamins and amino acids for humans. Insects have a high food conversion rate, e.g. crickets need six times less feed than cattle, four times less than sheep, and twice less than pigs and broiler chickens to produce the same amount of protein. Besides, they emit less greenhouse gases and ammonia than conventional livestock. Insects can be grown on organic waste. Therefore, insects are a potential source for conventional production (mini-livestock) of protein, either for direct human consumption, or indirectly in recomposed foods (with extracted protein from insects); and as a protein source into feedstock mixtures. http://www.fao.org/edible-insects/en/ http://www.fao.org/edible-insects/en/

seanwilson 6y ago
> In addition to the other replies, I'd like to point out that insect farming is an often overlooked solution. What is the actual problem that needs a solution though? I feel like "but where will we get our protein from?" is a common fallacy on the subject of meat that people accept without evidence. We're eating more meat now than ever and most Americans eat too much protein: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/well/eat/how-much-protein https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/well/eat/how-much-protein... "Most American adults eat about 100 grams of protein per day, or roughly twice the recommended amount."
- toxik 6y ago
  Who recommends 50 grams of protein per day? That’s way too little for an adult male.
  - seanwilson 6y ago
    NHS for one: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/body-building-sports-supplements-facts/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/body-building-spor... > The Department of Health advises adults to avoid consuming more than twice the recommended daily intake of protein (55.5g for men and 45g for women). https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/what-are-reference-intakes-on-food-labels/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/what-are-reference-int... > Protein: 50g Also, not that it's hard to get protein with plants anyway, but if you're really concerned with getting lots of protein, look into making seitan: https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/food-drink/a25976250/steak-seitan-which-is-better/ https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/food-drink/a25976250... > Steak (25g protein per 100g) > Seitan (75g protein per 100g) Its main component is wheat flour with everything washed away but the gluten so it's super cheap to produce and make. I think "you need meat for protein" is just a persistent meme/myth people cling on to to justify eating meat. Where do people think the animals are getting their protein from?
    - toxik 6y ago
      Per the same agency: > Athletes require slightly more protein than the rest of the population. According to the British Nutrition Foundation (BNF), endurance athletes require between 1.2 and 1.4g per kg of body weight daily, while those competing in strength and speed events need between 1.2 and 1.7g per kg of body weight. These intakes can easily be achieved by eating a normal balanced diet. This is in line with what most people aim for in macros. 1.2 g protein / kg body weight means way more than 50 grams per day. I did not dispute that you can get proteins from plants. I am however not sure of their profiles; proteins are a group of compounds, not a single one. Typically since animals eat plants and not the other way around, animal-sourced proteins are a superset of vegetable ones.
      - seanwilson 6y ago
        Yes, but the recommended daily allowance for an adult male (which you said was too little) is for regular people - most people aren't athletes and shouldn't be eating like one. > I am however not sure of their profiles; proteins are a group of compounds, not a single one Maybe look up what plant based athletes eat if you're concerned e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-athletes-who-are-vegan-and-what-made-them-switch-their-diet-2017-10?r=US&IR=T#barny-du-plessis-bodybuilder-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-athletes-who-are-vegan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegans Seitan, pea protein and soybean products are all very high in protein for example. > Typically since animals eat plants and not the other way around, animal-sourced proteins are a superset of vegetable ones. Can you offer any proof that this is true + significant in some way compared to a plant based diet? How are plant based athletes performing at a high level if it's important? These kinds of statements are things that people cling to so they can keep a high meat diet, which has an environmental impact.

seanwilson 6y ago

> In addition to the other replies, I'd like to point out that insect farming is an often overlooked solution. What is the actual problem that needs a solution though? I feel like "but where will we get our protein from?" is a common fallacy on the subject of meat that people accept without evidence. We're eating more meat now than ever and most Americans eat too much protein: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/well/eat/how-much-protein https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/well/eat/how-much-protein... "Most American adults eat about 100 grams of protein per day, or roughly twice the recommended amount."

toxik 6y ago
Who recommends 50 grams of protein per day? That’s way too little for an adult male.
- seanwilson 6y ago
  NHS for one: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/body-building-sports-supplements-facts/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/body-building-spor... > The Department of Health advises adults to avoid consuming more than twice the recommended daily intake of protein (55.5g for men and 45g for women). https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/what-are-reference-intakes-on-food-labels/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/what-are-reference-int... > Protein: 50g Also, not that it's hard to get protein with plants anyway, but if you're really concerned with getting lots of protein, look into making seitan: https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/food-drink/a25976250/steak-seitan-which-is-better/ https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/food-drink/a25976250... > Steak (25g protein per 100g) > Seitan (75g protein per 100g) Its main component is wheat flour with everything washed away but the gluten so it's super cheap to produce and make. I think "you need meat for protein" is just a persistent meme/myth people cling on to to justify eating meat. Where do people think the animals are getting their protein from?
  - toxik 6y ago
    Per the same agency: > Athletes require slightly more protein than the rest of the population. According to the British Nutrition Foundation (BNF), endurance athletes require between 1.2 and 1.4g per kg of body weight daily, while those competing in strength and speed events need between 1.2 and 1.7g per kg of body weight. These intakes can easily be achieved by eating a normal balanced diet. This is in line with what most people aim for in macros. 1.2 g protein / kg body weight means way more than 50 grams per day. I did not dispute that you can get proteins from plants. I am however not sure of their profiles; proteins are a group of compounds, not a single one. Typically since animals eat plants and not the other way around, animal-sourced proteins are a superset of vegetable ones.
    - seanwilson 6y ago
      Yes, but the recommended daily allowance for an adult male (which you said was too little) is for regular people - most people aren't athletes and shouldn't be eating like one. > I am however not sure of their profiles; proteins are a group of compounds, not a single one Maybe look up what plant based athletes eat if you're concerned e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-athletes-who-are-vegan-and-what-made-them-switch-their-diet-2017-10?r=US&IR=T#barny-du-plessis-bodybuilder-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-athletes-who-are-vegan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegans Seitan, pea protein and soybean products are all very high in protein for example. > Typically since animals eat plants and not the other way around, animal-sourced proteins are a superset of vegetable ones. Can you offer any proof that this is true + significant in some way compared to a plant based diet? How are plant based athletes performing at a high level if it's important? These kinds of statements are things that people cling to so they can keep a high meat diet, which has an environmental impact.