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I am hopeful that the initiative which uses waste stream plastics as a component of asphalt will allow us to finally get some decent alternative to landfill for

I am hopeful that the initiative which uses waste stream plastics as a component of asphalt will allow us to finally get some decent alternative to landfill for plastics. The best part about it was that the plastics didn't need to be sorted or clean; it is just going to be melted, pelletized and then mixed with hot tar to make asphalt. Since asphalt is now nearly infinitely recycled the plastics will be kept in use for a very long time with only minor amounts escaping in to the environment.

zamadatix 6y ago
I'm not as optimistic spreading plastics all over the ground to drive on is going to lead to less plastics escaping into the environment vs putting them in a landfill and covering them.
- Jarwain 6y ago
  I think y'all are thinking on different scales of "plastic escaping". One scale being large plastics like bags or packing materials which could conceivably be blown away from a landfill or otherwise just left to rot. The other scale being microplastics leaking into the ground & our groundwater. I'm not really sure whether the asphalt thing helps with microplastics
  - hinkley 6y ago
    It does not. We were just talking the other day about the particulate pollution from asphalt. If it’s made of plastic, then the dust is micro plastic.
jillesvangurp 6y ago
Actually there are two dominant sources of micro plastics in the oceans: tires and asphalt. There are other sources as well but those are the big ones. If you think about it, roads need regular up keep because they erode away. Same for tires, which need replacing regularly. Where does that material go? Well it all gets ground into small particles as cars and trucks use the roads. Car tires get warm when you use them because of friction. That friction inevitably wears out the roads and the tires. So you end up with fine dust and particles that eventually washes away when it rains and ends up in rivers and eventually our oceans. So, converting plastic bags to asphalt is a great way of ensuring a lot of it ends up in our oceans. The challenge with plastics is not necessarily recycling them but figuring out what is what so you can recycle them properly. Household trash is full of a wide variety of plastics. Sorting these and processing them is not impossible but a bit of a challenge if it's all mixed up. There are some startups innovating in this space and it's not completely hopeless at this point. Also there are new materials that degrade better/more predictably, certain bacteria have been discovered that actually eat plastics, and we're figuring out cleaner ways of producing source materials in ways that don't involve using fossil oil. But maybe converting oil to plastics for 1 use products or packaging should just not be that cheap as it is currently. The attitude of "it's not our problem" for both producers and consumers is the core issue. Make it their problem and it's suddenly a lot less attractive to use plastic because cost goes up when you do that.

zamadatix 6y ago

I'm not as optimistic spreading plastics all over the ground to drive on is going to lead to less plastics escaping into the environment vs putting them in a landfill and covering them.

Jarwain 6y ago
I think y'all are thinking on different scales of "plastic escaping". One scale being large plastics like bags or packing materials which could conceivably be blown away from a landfill or otherwise just left to rot. The other scale being microplastics leaking into the ground & our groundwater. I'm not really sure whether the asphalt thing helps with microplastics
- hinkley 6y ago
  It does not. We were just talking the other day about the particulate pollution from asphalt. If it’s made of plastic, then the dust is micro plastic.

jillesvangurp 6y ago

Actually there are two dominant sources of micro plastics in the oceans: tires and asphalt. There are other sources as well but those are the big ones. If you think about it, roads need regular up keep because they erode away. Same for tires, which need replacing regularly. Where does that material go? Well it all gets ground into small particles as cars and trucks use the roads. Car tires get warm when you use them because of friction. That friction inevitably wears out the roads and the tires. So you end up with fine dust and particles that eventually washes away when it rains and ends up in rivers and eventually our oceans. So, converting plastic bags to asphalt is a great way of ensuring a lot of it ends up in our oceans. The challenge with plastics is not necessarily recycling them but figuring out what is what so you can recycle them properly. Household trash is full of a wide variety of plastics. Sorting these and processing them is not impossible but a bit of a challenge if it's all mixed up. There are some startups innovating in this space and it's not completely hopeless at this point. Also there are new materials that degrade better/more predictably, certain bacteria have been discovered that actually eat plastics, and we're figuring out cleaner ways of producing source materials in ways that don't involve using fossil oil. But maybe converting oil to plastics for 1 use products or packaging should just not be that cheap as it is currently. The attitude of "it's not our problem" for both producers and consumers is the core issue. Make it their problem and it's suddenly a lot less attractive to use plastic because cost goes up when you do that.