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I'm really surprised. Did Apple shake up their PR or legal flacks? The language they've used recently (I'm thinking of the Epic stuff, too) feels different than

by _jal 6y ago

I'm really surprised. Did Apple shake up their PR or legal flacks? The language they've used recently (I'm thinking of the Epic stuff, too) feels different than their famously cool, considered tone; looser, more assertive, and much easier to argue with.

pier25 6y ago
I agree. Sentences like "we think that you will also know it when you cross it" are extremely arrogant.
smnrchrds 6y ago
I disagree. They have always been this arrogant. You are just noticing it right now. Do you remember when they essentially said don't run to the press if we don't allow your app, it won't help you, which I personally interpreted as or else? Or how almost every time someone criticizes Apple they sandwich a one-sentence criticism between 50 sentences of praise because they know the cost of not doing that could be their entire business? Since the launch of iPhone, Apple has been the 800lb gorilla in the room and has acted like it. EDIT: From App Store Review Guidelines on September 2014: > "If your App is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://web.archive.org/web/20140903022336/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140903022336/https://developer...
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Which is such a lie, because going to the press is exactly what gets a lot of apps re-evaluated and accepted.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dclowd9901 6y ago
    Eh, it _can_ be a lie. This is some form of the quandary “if you owe the bank a million dollars, you’re in trouble; if you owe the bank a billion dollars, the bank is in trouble.” 99% of app devs will not benefit from “running to the press.” Those that will will know it for certain.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      I've seen apps get their decisions reversed simply due to a post becoming popular on HN or Reddit. You don't have to be a major player for public shaming to work against apple.
rriepe 6y ago
I think it's the power dynamic. The marketing material doesn't need to be as good because they're (culturally) in charge now at the company. It used to be that engineering/design led the company. Now it's marketing and legal.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > It used to be that engineering/design led the company. Now it's marketing and legal. Isn't that what people make fun or Oracle for?
  - johnbellone 6y ago
    Oracle: Sales and legal.
atombender 6y ago
It's always been written in an oddly informal way. When I first read it, I did a double take and had to check if I was on the right domain, because I didn't expect it from Apple, of all companies. Over the years, it has been tightened a bit (the famous "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps" line is gone), but it's still quite relaxed and personal, which is a tone that is somewhat at odds with the strictness of the rules.
codeulike 6y ago
I think that bit has been in there for years. edit: Here it is, from 2016, probably goes back a lot longer than that https://web.archive.org/web/20160706210122/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160706210122/https://developer...

by _jal 6y ago

pier25 6y ago

I agree. Sentences like "we think that you will also know it when you cross it" are extremely arrogant.

smnrchrds 6y ago

I disagree. They have always been this arrogant. You are just noticing it right now. Do you remember when they essentially said don't run to the press if we don't allow your app, it won't help you, which I personally interpreted as or else? Or how almost every time someone criticizes Apple they sandwich a one-sentence criticism between 50 sentences of praise because they know the cost of not doing that could be their entire business? Since the launch of iPhone, Apple has been the 800lb gorilla in the room and has acted like it. EDIT: From App Store Review Guidelines on September 2014: > "If your App is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://web.archive.org/web/20140903022336/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140903022336/https://developer...

jjeaff 6y ago
Which is such a lie, because going to the press is exactly what gets a lot of apps re-evaluated and accepted.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dclowd9901 6y ago
  Eh, it _can_ be a lie. This is some form of the quandary “if you owe the bank a million dollars, you’re in trouble; if you owe the bank a billion dollars, the bank is in trouble.” 99% of app devs will not benefit from “running to the press.” Those that will will know it for certain.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    I've seen apps get their decisions reversed simply due to a post becoming popular on HN or Reddit. You don't have to be a major player for public shaming to work against apple.

rriepe 6y ago

I think it's the power dynamic. The marketing material doesn't need to be as good because they're (culturally) in charge now at the company. It used to be that engineering/design led the company. Now it's marketing and legal.

ardy42 6y ago
> It used to be that engineering/design led the company. Now it's marketing and legal. Isn't that what people make fun or Oracle for?
- johnbellone 6y ago
  Oracle: Sales and legal.

atombender 6y ago

It's always been written in an oddly informal way. When I first read it, I did a double take and had to check if I was on the right domain, because I didn't expect it from Apple, of all companies. Over the years, it has been tightened a bit (the famous "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps" line is gone), but it's still quite relaxed and personal, which is a tone that is somewhat at odds with the strictness of the rules.

codeulike 6y ago

I think that bit has been in there for years. edit: Here it is, from 2016, probably goes back a lot longer than that https://web.archive.org/web/20160706210122/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160706210122/https://developer...