6 ms·

Doesn't youtube, with its ads, violate this policy?

Nextgrid 6y ago
When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not install it and recommend everyone to just use the web with a content blocker extension (AdGuard) or a third-party frontend like Invidious (https://github.com/iv-org/invidious https://github.com/iv-org/invidious).
- kevinventullo 6y ago
  That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).
  - derefr 6y ago
    Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps; presumably specifically to avoid this loophole where the ads, purchases, etc. are happening “remotely” and so Apple can’t get a cut of them. Presumably, if anyone tried to build a service for “streaming” non-game apps, that wouldn’t be allowed on the App Store either.
    - deadmutex 6y ago
      > Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps. I thought they did just the opposite? 4.9: Streaming games Streaming games are permitted so long as they adhere to all guidelines — for example, each game update must be submitted for review, developers must provide appropriate metadata for search, games must use in-app purchase to unlock features or functionality, etc. Of course, there is always the open Internet and web browser apps to reach all users outside of the App Store.
      - deadmutex 6y ago
        Although, they seem pretty heavily biased towards Apple: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/11/apple-establishes-ridiculous-requirements-for-stadia-and-xbox-game-streaming-on-ios/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/11/apple-establishes-r...
      - strictnein 6y ago
        The only service that can meet all that is their own, so they're pretending to allow something they're actually prohibiting.
    - alasdair_ 6y ago
      The PS4 apps currently allow a user to access tgeir console via ios without any of this other stuff.
  - pieno 6y ago
    They've thought of that loophole and closed it already ;-) Basically you can only stream from a device that is owned by the user/owner of the iPhone/iPad on the same LAN, and you should not use streaming to mimic a thin client of a cloud app. See rule 4.7.2 on Remote Desktop Clients. (Note: this does not apply for "generic" remote desktop clients that are not intended to stream specific apps or services, such as the generic Microsoft Remote Desktop Client for iOS.)
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I mean this is the main argument against game streaming and HN seems to take the 100% opposite opinion.
  - alasdair_ 6y ago
    Hey, you just described Stadia!
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  > Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer For me, that only really happens these days with mid-video ads (and even then it's happening less frequently despite the number of mid-video ads increasing.) Most of this week I've had double unskippable ads at the front of many videos and they're generally 60+ seconds combined.
  - gerash 6y ago
    You can, you know, pay for the service (be the customer and not the product) and not see any ads
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      I don’t know about where you live, it’s the most expensive streaming platform here. Not worth the money for occasional watching of things people share at work. Also seeing more unskippable ads lately and it’s incredibly annoying.
      - jdofaz 6y ago
        ditto, if it won't let me skip the ad I usually just close it now
      - JiNCMG 6y ago
        Can't skip the first ad depending on the length of the video you will get 2 in the middle and then at 30-40 secs left. It's made YouTube unwatchable for most stuff. Rick Beato did a video talking about music license holders injecting more ads into his videos because he does stuff like Top 20 Rock Drummers of All Time. That requires him playing others' songs so they can inject more ads to earn from that video instead of taking it down.
      - alasdair_ 6y ago
        Youtube has two offerings: an ad-free version of youtube, and a version that shows a whole bunch of live local (and national) tv channels. The latter is close to 5X the cost of the former and is, I suspect, what you are thinking of.
- pier25 6y ago
  > so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself The problem is that companies like Google are able to get away with it, but not small developers.
  - JiNCMG 6y ago
    Because Google And Apple have come to an agreement. Same with Amazon and Apple as well as Amazon and Google (Youtube is finally on FireStick). Also it's not the size of the business but the value of your product and how much you are willing to give into the deal. Epic wanted to cut Apple completed out from IAP as well as get full OS level access with no Apple approval or supervision over the Epic Store that will be selling other developers apps. What kind of deal was that?
- alasdair_ 6y ago
  Google banning every ios and macos user from accessing everything from google.com To their gmail to youtube is a completely foreseeable counter reaction if apple chooses to limit youtube due to ads. Both companies will lose, of course, but Google has a hell of a lot more web traffic to its content than Apple does.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    There is no way they can do so without attracting anti-trust scrutiny, not to mention Apple can deploy a very easy countermeasure by changing Safari's user-agent to Chrome's and playing cat & mouse regarding browser fingerprinting defenses.
kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
"Apps should allow a user to get what they’ve paid for." YouTube does not show ads to YouTube Red (now called Premium) users.

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not install it and recommend everyone to just use the web with a content blocker extension (AdGuard) or a third-party frontend like Invidious (https://github.com/iv-org/invidious https://github.com/iv-org/invidious).

kevinventullo 6y ago
That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).
- derefr 6y ago
  Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps; presumably specifically to avoid this loophole where the ads, purchases, etc. are happening “remotely” and so Apple can’t get a cut of them. Presumably, if anyone tried to build a service for “streaming” non-game apps, that wouldn’t be allowed on the App Store either.
  - deadmutex 6y ago
    > Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps. I thought they did just the opposite? 4.9: Streaming games Streaming games are permitted so long as they adhere to all guidelines — for example, each game update must be submitted for review, developers must provide appropriate metadata for search, games must use in-app purchase to unlock features or functionality, etc. Of course, there is always the open Internet and web browser apps to reach all users outside of the App Store.
    - deadmutex 6y ago
      Although, they seem pretty heavily biased towards Apple: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/11/apple-establishes-ridiculous-requirements-for-stadia-and-xbox-game-streaming-on-ios/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/11/apple-establishes-r...
    - strictnein 6y ago
      The only service that can meet all that is their own, so they're pretending to allow something they're actually prohibiting.
  - alasdair_ 6y ago
    The PS4 apps currently allow a user to access tgeir console via ios without any of this other stuff.
- pieno 6y ago
  They've thought of that loophole and closed it already ;-) Basically you can only stream from a device that is owned by the user/owner of the iPhone/iPad on the same LAN, and you should not use streaming to mimic a thin client of a cloud app. See rule 4.7.2 on Remote Desktop Clients. (Note: this does not apply for "generic" remote desktop clients that are not intended to stream specific apps or services, such as the generic Microsoft Remote Desktop Client for iOS.)
- Spivak 6y ago
  I mean this is the main argument against game streaming and HN seems to take the 100% opposite opinion.
- alasdair_ 6y ago
  Hey, you just described Stadia!
zimpenfish 6y ago
> Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer For me, that only really happens these days with mid-video ads (and even then it's happening less frequently despite the number of mid-video ads increasing.) Most of this week I've had double unskippable ads at the front of many videos and they're generally 60+ seconds combined.
- gerash 6y ago
  You can, you know, pay for the service (be the customer and not the product) and not see any ads
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    I don’t know about where you live, it’s the most expensive streaming platform here. Not worth the money for occasional watching of things people share at work. Also seeing more unskippable ads lately and it’s incredibly annoying.
    - jdofaz 6y ago
      ditto, if it won't let me skip the ad I usually just close it now
    - JiNCMG 6y ago
      Can't skip the first ad depending on the length of the video you will get 2 in the middle and then at 30-40 secs left. It's made YouTube unwatchable for most stuff. Rick Beato did a video talking about music license holders injecting more ads into his videos because he does stuff like Top 20 Rock Drummers of All Time. That requires him playing others' songs so they can inject more ads to earn from that video instead of taking it down.
    - alasdair_ 6y ago
      Youtube has two offerings: an ad-free version of youtube, and a version that shows a whole bunch of live local (and national) tv channels. The latter is close to 5X the cost of the former and is, I suspect, what you are thinking of.
pier25 6y ago
> so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself The problem is that companies like Google are able to get away with it, but not small developers.
- JiNCMG 6y ago
  Because Google And Apple have come to an agreement. Same with Amazon and Apple as well as Amazon and Google (Youtube is finally on FireStick). Also it's not the size of the business but the value of your product and how much you are willing to give into the deal. Epic wanted to cut Apple completed out from IAP as well as get full OS level access with no Apple approval or supervision over the Epic Store that will be selling other developers apps. What kind of deal was that?
alasdair_ 6y ago
Google banning every ios and macos user from accessing everything from google.com To their gmail to youtube is a completely foreseeable counter reaction if apple chooses to limit youtube due to ads. Both companies will lose, of course, but Google has a hell of a lot more web traffic to its content than Apple does.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  There is no way they can do so without attracting anti-trust scrutiny, not to mention Apple can deploy a very easy countermeasure by changing Safari's user-agent to Chrome's and playing cat & mouse regarding browser fingerprinting defenses.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago

"Apps should allow a user to get what they’ve paid for." YouTube does not show ads to YouTube Red (now called Premium) users.