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> People quickly forget what a tremendous liberation the App Store created for developers. People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long

by _qulr 6y ago

> People quickly forget what a tremendous liberation the App Store created for developers. People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed. >That's what has caused this flood of software purchases from consumers. No, that was caused by a billion people buying shiny new mobile computers. They would have bought a lot of software in any case, even without an App Store. New platform, new software.

reaperducer 6y ago
People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed. He's talking about when you used to have to pay $50 to $500 for software in a store, but the author was lucky to see $5-$10 of that.
- grumple 6y ago
  What do you mean? Microsoft was certainly seeing more than 5-10$ per product sold.
- x0x0 6y ago
  And now Apple generously gives you up to 85% of $1 to $5!
- ethbr0 6y ago
  True, but today is mostly certainly not 1998.
hn_check 6y ago
"People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed." Independent software development was an absolute wasteland. It was extremely hard to get a user to give you money outside of a few extremely fortified ghettos (Steam, for instance, which takes a 30% cut as well). Begware was the most common tactic. Even now with multiple options, while everyone piles on Apple, we should note that iOS was the single most profitable platform for Epic, across all platforms. Apple did more to liberate payments from a user than any other platform. Through trust, through standardization and normalization, and even through things like the wide availability of App Store gift cards (which are often heavily discounted - $85 for $100 of App Store gift cards at Costco many times through the year). Elsewhere people are arguing that Windows is a wonderful platform because look, it's so open. Okay, go and make money from Windows users and see how great it is. Unless your name is Microsoft or Adobe, you are in for a really, really rough time of it. You'll get 100% of nothing. As always, of course this is downvoted. Anyone looking to HN for rational, reality-based discussion might find it a bit disappointing. Here apparently the Windows ISV market is a vibrant, lucrative market. Everyone here is profiting from it, right? (LOL -- close to none of you are). This is farce.
- monadic2 6y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted. It seems like the unavoidable conclusion is that there are no longer any good places to make or find decent consumer software without having a corporate entity get their undeserving cut.
  - hn_check 6y ago
    A bunch of my comments were flagged as well. HN is an absolute joke. There is zero rational discussion on here. It's just zealots contriving their bullshit.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > Independent software development was an absolute wasteland. I had a 10 year career in that "wasteland". > we should note that iOS was the single most profitable platform for Epic, across all platforms Citation? From what I've seen, that's not actually true. > Okay, go and make money from Windows users and see how great it is. For a time, the Windows version of our product was my company's biggest money-maker. It seems that in recent years though Microsoft as a company has pivoted away from Windows as their primary product. Away from desktop, toward "the cloud". I personally find that unfortunate, but I'm not a stockholder. > The whole torch mob anti-Apple angle seems entirely detached from actual reality. I'm not anti-Apple, I'm pro-Macintosh.
  - hn_check 6y ago
    "I had a 10 year career in that "wasteland"." From your CV, apparently developing for the Mac. Actually at a well known developer that probably had just a handful of employees. It isn't really a counterpoint. "Citation? From what I've seen, that's not actually true." Epic doesn't release these numbers, yet from third party analysis in the 30 days before being kicked from the respective stores, Fortnite made $43M on iOS, and a paltry $3.3M on Android, worldwide. Those iOS numbers would make it represent 40% of all Fortnite revenue, which would already significantly over-represent the userbase. Nonetheless, it's funny when someone demands a citation and then gives their own belief minus citation as a counterpoint.
ben_w 6y ago
> People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed. I did that. Kagi.com was my payment… handler? https://web.archive.org/web/20100303221537/http://www.kagi.com/kagisolutions/pricing.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100303221537/http://www.kagi.c... $0.75 + (5…8)% So any transaction less than or equal to the $2.99 tier would be just as bad (as in, it costs you at least 30% of the list price), even if hosting was free. I’m also old enough to remember Apple getting involved in the fight over the In App Purchases patent: https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/08/lodsys-offers-update-on-in-app-purchase-patent-dispute/ https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/08/lodsys-offers-update-on...
- _qulr 6y ago
  > So any transaction less than or equal to the $2.99 tier would be just as bad (as in, it costs you at least 30% of the list price), even if hosting was free. It's true that App Store has the best deal for payment processing for very low-priced apps. But that's not truly a win for developers when the App Store itself caused the "race to the bottom". Who was selling 99 cent apps before the crap store?
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    I remember that if I wanted to play anything other than Snake on my Nokia, I had to pay like $5 a game. And those games were even worse than the majority of 99¢ games on the store. You can argue lower prices lead to more crap, but it also encourages people to spend more. Most people would debate a $4.99 purchase, but think nothing of 5 99¢ purchases if done separately.
    - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
      I think I agree with Lap Cat here. There's a place for cheap apps, but the problem comes for people developing productivity (or worse, vertical market) software that's going to sell "mere" thousands of copies, or tens of thousands at best, rather than hundreds of thousands or more. If you sell 10,000 copies at $50 a copy, you've grossed well over a quarter-million even subtracting Apple's 30% -- but if you're selling on a platform where it's hard to price anything over $5, you may have a problem, because one-tenth the price is probably not going to translate to ten times the sales.

by _qulr 6y ago

reaperducer 6y ago

People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed. He's talking about when you used to have to pay $50 to $500 for software in a store, but the author was lucky to see $5-$10 of that.

grumple 6y ago
What do you mean? Microsoft was certainly seeing more than 5-10$ per product sold.
x0x0 6y ago
And now Apple generously gives you up to 85% of $1 to $5!
ethbr0 6y ago
True, but today is mostly certainly not 1998.

hn_check 6y ago

"People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed." Independent software development was an absolute wasteland. It was extremely hard to get a user to give you money outside of a few extremely fortified ghettos (Steam, for instance, which takes a 30% cut as well). Begware was the most common tactic. Even now with multiple options, while everyone piles on Apple, we should note that iOS was the single most profitable platform for Epic, across all platforms. Apple did more to liberate payments from a user than any other platform. Through trust, through standardization and normalization, and even through things like the wide availability of App Store gift cards (which are often heavily discounted - $85 for $100 of App Store gift cards at Costco many times through the year). Elsewhere people are arguing that Windows is a wonderful platform because look, it's so open. Okay, go and make money from Windows users and see how great it is. Unless your name is Microsoft or Adobe, you are in for a really, really rough time of it. You'll get 100% of nothing. As always, of course this is downvoted. Anyone looking to HN for rational, reality-based discussion might find it a bit disappointing. Here apparently the Windows ISV market is a vibrant, lucrative market. Everyone here is profiting from it, right? (LOL -- close to none of you are). This is farce.

monadic2 6y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. It seems like the unavoidable conclusion is that there are no longer any good places to make or find decent consumer software without having a corporate entity get their undeserving cut.
- hn_check 6y ago
  A bunch of my comments were flagged as well. HN is an absolute joke. There is zero rational discussion on here. It's just zealots contriving their bullshit.
_qulr 6y ago
> Independent software development was an absolute wasteland. I had a 10 year career in that "wasteland". > we should note that iOS was the single most profitable platform for Epic, across all platforms Citation? From what I've seen, that's not actually true. > Okay, go and make money from Windows users and see how great it is. For a time, the Windows version of our product was my company's biggest money-maker. It seems that in recent years though Microsoft as a company has pivoted away from Windows as their primary product. Away from desktop, toward "the cloud". I personally find that unfortunate, but I'm not a stockholder. > The whole torch mob anti-Apple angle seems entirely detached from actual reality. I'm not anti-Apple, I'm pro-Macintosh.
- hn_check 6y ago
  "I had a 10 year career in that "wasteland"." From your CV, apparently developing for the Mac. Actually at a well known developer that probably had just a handful of employees. It isn't really a counterpoint. "Citation? From what I've seen, that's not actually true." Epic doesn't release these numbers, yet from third party analysis in the 30 days before being kicked from the respective stores, Fortnite made $43M on iOS, and a paltry $3.3M on Android, worldwide. Those iOS numbers would make it represent 40% of all Fortnite revenue, which would already significantly over-represent the userbase. Nonetheless, it's funny when someone demands a citation and then gives their own belief minus citation as a counterpoint.

ben_w 6y ago

> People quickly forget that software was distributed on the web long before the App Store existed. I did that. Kagi.com was my payment… handler? https://web.archive.org/web/20100303221537/http://www.kagi.com/kagisolutions/pricing.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100303221537/http://www.kagi.c... $0.75 + (5…8)% So any transaction less than or equal to the $2.99 tier would be just as bad (as in, it costs you at least 30% of the list price), even if hosting was free. I’m also old enough to remember Apple getting involved in the fight over the In App Purchases patent: https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/08/lodsys-offers-update-on-in-app-purchase-patent-dispute/ https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/08/lodsys-offers-update-on...

_qulr 6y ago
> So any transaction less than or equal to the $2.99 tier would be just as bad (as in, it costs you at least 30% of the list price), even if hosting was free. It's true that App Store has the best deal for payment processing for very low-priced apps. But that's not truly a win for developers when the App Store itself caused the "race to the bottom". Who was selling 99 cent apps before the crap store?
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I remember that if I wanted to play anything other than Snake on my Nokia, I had to pay like $5 a game. And those games were even worse than the majority of 99¢ games on the store. You can argue lower prices lead to more crap, but it also encourages people to spend more. Most people would debate a $4.99 purchase, but think nothing of 5 99¢ purchases if done separately.
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    I think I agree with Lap Cat here. There's a place for cheap apps, but the problem comes for people developing productivity (or worse, vertical market) software that's going to sell "mere" thousands of copies, or tens of thousands at best, rather than hundreds of thousands or more. If you sell 10,000 copies at $50 a copy, you've grossed well over a quarter-million even subtracting Apple's 30% -- but if you're selling on a platform where it's hard to price anything over $5, you may have a problem, because one-tenth the price is probably not going to translate to ten times the sales.